SPN S08E02 reaction: All My Dean Feels!

[x5vale]

Three main things to talk about after watching this episode, which I liked but not excited me. I liked Mrs Tran and also the new Angels.

Not much to say on Sam. I just don't like how they are portraying him, so be careful because some comments might be not Sam friendly.

I love Benny so far. Hope he doesn't give me reasons to hate him.




Sorry not coherent, just some emotional thoughts.



Moral Standard
I hope the show is not trying to sell again the fact that Sam moral's is higher and better than Dean's one because this is going to fail miserably.
Example:
Sam didn't hesitate to trap the demon's inside Kevin's mom friend so that they could kill him and then he was lecturing Dean because he was ready to kill Kevin's mom (which he wasn't because he didn't).
So? What's the difference between the two women? The first one was an unknown person, while Kevin's mom is someone they care about because it's Kevin mom and because they need Kevin, so they need her.


Castiel and Dean
I loved the re-union. I loved how much Dean and Castiel care for each other. I can also appreciate that Castiel is trying to protect Dean, but...there's some more to that. Something more subtle which, btw, was the first thing I felt watching that scene.
They are turning Cas into woobie!Cas. They are deconstructing Cas character and I am not liking it.
It's still Cas and I still love him but once again what they have done is made him decide to leave Dean behind in order to protect him. Noble, awesome, loving but not what Dean needed. Dean needed Castiel. The core of their relationship is that they need each other. They stand up for each other.
Dean found himself alone in Purgatory and he prayed to him, just to know he was alive. For help too. Cas knew, he listened to those prayers and he didn't go. It costed him a lot. I bet he was torn inside and that his heart was bleeeding, because, come on it was Dean out there alone. Impossible situation. Cas could never win, except he could.
Castiel ran away and then he said that it did for Dean. No. Just no. It’s what he did before. He didn’t tell Dean about his hidden agenda to protect him and he worked on his own, lying, manipulating and practically screwing up with everything. Meanwhile Castiel was protecting Dean, Dean was alone fighting for his life, turning in someone he is going to hate for the rest of his life.
So does Cas think that Dean can’t bear fighting the Leviathans again? Does he think that is better to leave Dean alone in a place like the Purgatory?
Cas loves Dean and it’s out of love he made his decision, but it’s because of the consenquences of that decision on Dean, I watch that scene and feel like breaking inside..because I see Dean being broken, crushed, left alone again.
Dean needed Cas to be with him. Fighting with him, not for him. This is what Dean wants and what Dean needs and it disappoints me once again that Castiel didn’t understand it.

Dean
I didn’t think it was possible to break him more than they have done so far, but I was wrong. That look on his face when he killed the monster…it was satisfaction. He wanted to kill that soul. Just to kill it. No other reason. The Dean who come back from the Purgatory is not the Dean who got there. He is different. He is now fighting a war which is not the Apocalypse, which is not done because the world is about to be destroyed. It’s done because it would be the end of a cicle, closing a circle, maybe giving them some rest and peace. This war is going to cost them a lot. How far Dean is willing to go? What would have happened if he had killed Kevin’s mother? Which are the real consequences of having spent a whole year killing, killing, killing? A whole life spent hating and hunting monsters, with a father who taught him not to have pity. This Dean is broken, is trying to deal with everything, is hiding things, is even more upfront when it comes to tell Sam or Cas what he was expecting from them. This Dean hates himself..but as he said, what’s one more nightmare? He is there, doing what he does best, dying inside a little bit more every time he kills because he knows he has to, but he also knows that sometimes it’s not fair. The Dean who thinks and he does think it, that people he doesn’t need anymore end up dead and Castiel face to haunt him…But this Dean…oh god this Dean so needs some comfort, a place, a person to rely on, to make him feel at peace. He broke me when he was talking to Castiel. How he was begging him not to leave him. How was asking him to stay with him, not sacrificing himself for him. Dean doesn’t need people to die for him, he wants and needs friends who are willing to be with him and fight with him. With, not for. Because you know…after all, the aftermath is that he is alone and a lonely life is not something Dean deserves.

Comments

[metallidean-grl.livejournal.com]

I loved Benny sticking up for Dean. That was cool.

As for Cas, I agree, didn't care too much for his explanation of leaving Dean was to keep him safe. I don't buy that. There is safety in numbers, not in being alone, especially when you are both fighting for your lives against a common enemy, in a world of monsters. Which makes me wonder if there is more to his story. Dean praying to Cas every night and not getting any answer definitely broke my heart. I wonder how long Dean was in Purgatory alone until Benny found him. And then, how much more time elapsed until they found Cas. Dean and Cas needed to be together and Cas should not have left him. So, the question goes, did they now remain together?

As for Dean, he is definitely a hardened warrior/soldier that is having a difficult time readjusting to his life back topside, and not having the constant threat overhanging you. He is very rough around the edges still and needs to soften up a bit, get back to more of a human status quo. But I don't necessarily see Dean as "broken". I see him more as accepting who he is, what he is and although the casualties of war will always bother him, I am getting more of a felling that Dean is not feeling as encumbered by everything as he has in the past. And I did not interpret Sam's question to Dean about if he was going to kill momma Tran as more of a moral high ground. I just thought it was a question one would ask if he was really going to go through with killing her, given the chance. Dean answers yes, it was Crowley, he didn't care who he might be possessing. It was a chance to get rid of this enemy, and Dean will take any opportunity he is presented. I think Sam knows that Dean is very different and he is just trying to get an understanding as to where Dean's mindset is.

But I do agree that Dean does not deserve to be left alone. Sam owes him a lot and Sam needs to not pack up and leave Dean once all is said and done. The brothers have a lot they need to work out, and it is going to be an interesting journey for both of them.

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

I loved Benny sticking up for Dean. That was cool.
Just please let him be loyal till the end.

There is safety in numbers, not in being alone, especially when you are both fighting for your lives against a common enemy, in a world of monsters.
Exactly, I can even believe he wanted to protect Dean, but Dean is able to fight Leviathans and he was in more danger there all alone.
I hope there is more and that the explanation can help Dean to get better. Right now all I see is pain.

And then, how much more time elapsed until they found Cas. Dean and Cas needed to be together and Cas should not have left him. So, the question goes, did they now remain together?
I want to know what happened when Cas was dragged away and screamed for Dean. I want to know why Dean couldn't save him and what Cas was up to.

But I don't necessarily see Dean as "broken".
I think he is broken from the beginning but I agree, he might hate himself but he is accepting who he is.

. I just thought it was a question one would ask if he was really going to go through with killing her, given the chance.
I am biased when it comes to Sam..because I have seen him judging Dean too many times, so you might be right. I hope so.

I think Sam knows that Dean is very different and he is just trying to get an understanding as to where Dean's mindset is.
It baffles me how Sam can't really get his brother sometimes.

Sam owes him a lot and Sam needs to not pack up and leave Dean once all is said and done.
I think Sam has the right to go and live his won life, It's not what bothers me. But Sam has to make this decision on his own and not blame someone else for it. I actually think that would be good for Dean to have this ability to think about another possible life.

[metallidean-grl.livejournal.com]

I really think Dean came to terms with himself, with his life while down in Purgatory. Which is why I think he may be more accepting of happenings and events topside. I could be totally wrong, who knows. I think this season is just starting with the emotional twists and turns.

As for Sam, yea, Sam does tend sometimes to look at Dean harshly. Even when Dean is making jokes and having fun, Sam always gives him this look. It's always looked at as cute and funny, but you know, that is Dean. It would be nice if Sam would just take that as being who his brother is and let him be.

Sam knows Dean, but he still doesn't "know him" as well as he should. Sam has always been so caught up in his own self, his own turmoils with the demon blood thing, as far back as S1, that Sam just doesn't "see" Dean in many respects. And instead of trying to look at Dean from Dean's point of view and understand him that way, he is always looking at Dean from his own clouded point of view.

And yes, Sam does have a right to go off and live his own life. But yea, I'm not caring too much for his explanations as to why he will stick with Dean, for now. I'm not happy with where his mindset is now. He seems to be hunting more out of a sense of guilt than anything. And hunting for that purpose, his head isn't totally in it and it could get him or Dean badly hurt or killed. Sam needs to change his purpose, his own mindset to one where he realizes he needs to do this as a responsibility because he knows it is the right and best thing to do. And as you said, not blame someone else. And Dean, it would be nice for him to think he might have another type of life, but I honestly don't know if that is even something he is thinking about right now. His mind and body are still so much with Purgatory, I think he is set more on his purpose and mission, and that is ganking monsters. I think with time he might start coming to that way of thinking, but not right now. And I would love for him to have that sense of hope, that he might be able to finally have that kind of a life.

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

It would be nice if Sam would just take that as being who his brother is and let him be.
Yes I think this is what I am asking for.

And instead of trying to look at Dean from Dean's point of view and understand him that way, he is always looking at Dean from his own clouded point of view.
This.
Total lack of emphaty.

Sam needs to change his purpose, his own mindset to one where he realizes he needs to do this as a responsibility because he knows it is the right and best thing to do. And as you said, not blame someone else.
I don't even care if he does, I just want him to be clear and honest. I think Dean doesn't need this Sam and doesn't deserve to be considered a burden again.

I think with time he might start coming to that way of thinking, but not right now. And I would love for him to have that sense of hope, that he might be able to finally have that kind of a life.
Yes. I would love it too.

[shoofus.livejournal.com]

so do you think this dean would sacrifice sam to take out crowley and close the gates of hell forever? i am wondering if that is the direction this is going now...

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think he's willing to sacrifice Sam. Dean is not going so far, but he would make regrettable choices.

[lisichechka.livejournal.com]

Ah, got it what you meant!
I have to tell that i think Cas wasn't himself there. There are some holes in his story and Misha mentioned that Cas will be influenced and won't know what happened. I don't exuse him just want to kow why he thought the disappearance was better for Dean? To leave Dean with no knowledge iof where you are and why you left was better for Dean? Dean thought some masty things dragged cas out, it was a better explanation that one cas came up with. I mean if cas wanted Dean to believe him he could make up a better story. But he told what he told. Why? He claimed he's not insane anymore but did you believe him? I ain't sure.

As for Dean i love Dean we have right now. Seriously love him. I know he's troubled (hee, i know) and i knnow he's hurt but he can deal with all of it later. Right now he's the most capable hunter to do this jb and save the world.
I think if he's kill kevin's mother the season would be very short :) But anyway, if he'd kill her he's suffer but he'd be a hero. He'd kill Crowley! The king of hell! How can be no worth killing of a one woman who agreed to trade her soul anyway?
I know i'm rough right now but to think of it they're at war and there's no place for sentiments there.
I also don't think that killing monsters in Purgatory has to have a big effect on Dean. Those monsters aren't humans, they killed innocents and deserve to die. The problem for Dean is now to change his mindset and adjust to reality he is now where are shades of gray again. But Dean is capable of that too.

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

The fact that Cas wasn't himself is exactly what I don't like. This is decontructing his character for me. If you want him, you have to have him, not a "heishimbutheisnot" Castiel. I want Castiel back.

Dean thought some masty things dragged cas out, it was a better explanation that one cas came up with
Yes it was. And you could see how much Dean was hurt when Castiel told him he just decided to leave him alone. Dean doesn't need protection. He needs his friend.

IMO Cas is not insane anymore, but he is up to something we haven't found out yet.

I love this TROUBLED (omg I am addicted, we have also a forum now...)Dean too. Seriously every time i think I can't love him more, I actually can.
I think Dean was affected by the Purgatory in a way not even Hell did. It's about what I feel, not about what I see on screen. I might be wrong but I am sure he has done something he regrets like anything else he has done so far. I jsut want to find out NOW!

Dean is capable of everything. I trust him.

[lisichechka.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but otoh i think it's Cas' story this season - of him finding his way back to his usual self. The same as Dean's cause i think Dean's story this season is to find a way he felt before - that *killing things* is important but *saving people* is more important.
I mean we know that Purgatory influence everyone and the way it affected Dean isn't the same as it affected cas so they both are not themselves. You can't expect Dean to be different and cas to be the same.
I know Dean needs his friend back and i hope he'll get him soon. Did you read Misha's interview when he said cas will feel jealous? I hope that will be a sign for him that something is wrong and he's wrong and he has to change his attitude to be Dean's friend again. And in the same time i'm scared Cas can do something cause of his jealousy... oh, Show!


I think what Dean regrets is that he had to put his feelings aside in attempt to survive down there and now he's not the same person he used to be. And he wants to go back but doesn't know how yet.
I hope things he's done there aren't about cas cause there's no sense in walking through all Purgatory looking for Cas only to leave him behind. My fingers crossed they'll make this story a proper ending.

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

I like your take on Dean's story. Saving people is more important than killing things. Very well put hon.

I don't expect Cas to be the same. My problem is that Cas did what he did in S6 and there Cas was Cas. He also alleged the same reasons. Protecting Dean. So it's the same Cas..at least from his point of view.

Yep I read that one. Let's see how it works out.

I agree with your last sentence. Totally with you.

[lisichechka.livejournal.com]

If they'll go there i'll be happy. I want Dean to finally realize that he's not only the killer and is good in many other things. So far his *friends*, his job and circumstances don't him see it but i hope he'll finally see it in himself and if Cas can't help him there maybe Benny will be able to help.

I know there are problems with Cas and i hope they'll fix it this season. I mean why to make Dean-Cas so difficult if not fix it in the end?

I know they must be throw Dean under the bus again but it won't happen till later in the season so at least we have couple of eps more to enjoy :)

[oanaspn.livejournal.com]

Honey, you've said it perfectly. Frankly, i like this Dean, although it worries me a little. And when you come to think about it, the situation in purgatory is totally different from being in Hell, torturing souls, at least there he wasn't alive. Here, he had to fight for his life, literally. I am saddened that everybody's kinda backstabbing Dean, or lies to him (considering Castiel being an angel he is a manipulative little s>>t)when he really needs some affection,comfort,trust and stability...He's worthy of those. Hmmm, i really like Benny and love how he tried to protect Dean & took his side. I hope we don't end up hating him. Hmmm, i must say i was excited for the first epi of the season, but not so much for this. Hope that things will change, i don't know, somethin's missing...


Tomorrow TVD!!!!!! I cannot wait to seeeee :) xd

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about how Purgatory might affect Dean and how everyone he loves has lied to him or betrayed him at least once. I think Dean has great abandoning issues and he has to deal with them sooner or later.

That's my hope too. Hating Benny wouldn't be nice.

OMG TVD, DAMOOOOOOON! Posted about it too.

[roselani24.livejournal.com]

Lovely gifs at the start, Val. Very appropriate and a moment I very much loved because this episode really drove home even more for me how Dean is being left alone. Dean, for all his anti-social and awkwardness with normal folk, needs people, needs someone to protect and love and share his life with. He needs someone who is willing to stand with him and have his back without putting a knife in it. Dean loves so much, has such a big heart to share it breaks me into pieces to see him so broken and hiding his vulnerable heart even as it bleeds out everywhere. He doesn't deserve to be alone, I completely agree. But it is a very sad day when I prefer Dean hanging out with Benny than with Sam or Cas.


This Dean hates himself..but as he said, what’s one more nightmare? He is there, doing what he does best, dying inside a little bit more every time he kills because he knows he has to, but he also knows that sometimes it’s not fair. The Dean who thinks and he does think it, that people he doesn’t need anymore end up dead and Castiel face to haunt him…But this Dean…oh god this Dean so needs some comfort, a place, a person to rely on, to make him feel at peace.

Oh my, YES!!! SO MUCH!! And worse, I fear it will be a long time coming especially when the preview for next week showed so painfully clear that Sam is ready to call it quits again and leave Dean behind. It is Sam's choice and he does deserve a normal life mind, but seeing as the show is about 2 brothers hunting, it means only extreme pain and hurt and loneliness for Dean because obviously Sam can never have normal if he remains on the show. So yeah, really not happy about that and especially how this hurts Dean.

He already hates himself, has hated himself for a long, long time. My concern is, what will happen when Dean lets go? And seriously, I don't see how he won't at some point. Sam wants to bail on him again after a not even looking for him, Cas bailed on him and Dean had to track him down in Purgatory, Kevin bailed with his mom and left an accusatory note that Dean just uses people and then kills him. Benny and Dean chose to seperate, but Dean made it very clear that if Benny calls Dean will come in a heartbeat. The same promise that has always been there for Sam, for Castiel, and in the past for his dad and John Winchester. How people have taken advantage of him for that! :'(

Castiel ran away and then he said that it did for Dean. No. Just no. It’s what he did before. He didn’t tell Dean about his hidden agenda to protect him and he worked on his own, lying, manipulating and practically screwing up with everything. Meanwhile Castiel was protecting Dean, Dean was alone fighting for his life, turning in someone he is going to hate for the rest of his life.

Great point and I agree completely that leaving Dean alone to battle the monsters of Purgatory was the worse decision Castiel could have made. I think he ran to protect Dean because he cares, but also because he was ashamed and didn't want to stay with Dean at that point.

Dean has not fully forgiven Cas, though he was certainly getting to that point prior to being dropped in Purgatory. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Cas not realizing that despite that, Dean would have fought by his side in Purgatory without a thought. Because Dean stands with his loved ones and he will stand against them as well when they (re: Sam, Cas, Bobby) stray and do something incredibly stupid and make a mess that requires Dean to clean up. Of course maybe that was why Cas thought it was a better idea to flee...except Dean was praying to him every night and the idiot should have realized Dean would search for him. *sighs* Messed up angel! Maybe...maybe he'll finally get it later this season. But I am not too hopeful.

Actually, I'm more worried Dean is going to go Dark Phoenix ala X-Men because of how poorly he is being treated, how badly he is being rejected when he's trying so hard to do the right thing and to re-balance himself after a year of non-stop combat. We'll see.

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

Very appropriate and a moment I very much loved because this episode really drove home even more for me how Dean is being left alone.
I loved Benny siding up with Dean and asking for an explanation on why Cas bailed on Dean.

Dean, for all his anti-social and awkwardness with normal folk, needs people, needs someone to protect and love and share his life with.
All the feels...*cries*

He needs someone who is willing to stand with him and have his back without putting a knife in it.
He just wants a friend to trust and rely on. Just a single person, just one.

But it is a very sad day when I prefer Dean hanging out with Benny than with Sam or Cas.
I join you in the sadness. I want to believe Benny is not going to backstab him. Not again. It would be ironic if a monster were the only one not to betray Dean.
Law of retaliation much? But also, new questions and new issues because how can you keep killing monsters without even flinching if your best friend is one of them and so you got to see that they are not just monsters? This is the same problem I have with TVD. We just see it from a human point of view, but we are not better than them. Monsters kill by nature. They are like that.
Humans kill too...if you get what I mean, but the topic is complicated and deserves a proper post.

Oh my, YES!!! SO MUCH!! And worse, I fear it will be a long time coming especially when the preview for next week showed so painfully clear that Sam is ready to call it quits again and leave Dean behind.
I think Sam has the right to. Go Sam, please go. I don't like the idea of someone quitting. Never liked. That's my biggest issue with Sam Winchester. Always been... if he wants to go, just go but please don't give us that "Fallen Idol" speech crap. Please.

it means only extreme pain and hurt and loneliness for Dean because obviously Sam can never have normal if he remains on the show.
I know and it makes Sam the most hated character of the show. Nice characterization indeed.

Sam wants to bail on him again after a not even looking for him, Cas bailed on him and Dean had to track him down in Purgatory, Kevin bailed with his mom and left an accusatory note that Dean just uses people and then kills him.
Trust me, that Kevin line made me feel everything but good sentiments about Kevin because, while I get him, he doesn't know anything and i say it again, anything about Dean Winchester and his life. So shut up Kevin, please.
My biggest fear is that those are hints for something we are going to find out about Dean which will hurt us all and will be used against Dean.

How people have taken advantage of him for that! :'(
*cries some more*

I think he ran to protect Dean because he cares, but also because he was ashamed and didn't want to stay with Dean at that point.
How brave of him. I also think he was up to something. Why, why did they have to screw up with their rl?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Cas not realizing that despite that, Dean would have fought by his side in Purgatory without a thought.
Stubborn angel who never listens to Dean...

Because Dean stands with his loved ones and he will stand against them as well when they (re: Sam, Cas, Bobby) stray and do something incredibly stupid and make a mess that requires Dean to clean up.
Great point hon. I completely agree with him.

Actually, I'm more worried Dean is going to go Dark Phoenix ala X-Men because of how poorly he is being treated, how badly he is being rejected when he's trying so hard to do the right thing and to re-balance himself after a year of non-stop combat. We'll see.
OMG Tamara, omg Dean....
*clings*

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

THIS. ALL OF IT...dammit, I love Show!!

*HUGS*

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

I love it too sweetie :)

[ann-tara.livejournal.com]

Someone on one of the boards I visit made a really good observation about the fact that Dean became more and more brutal in Purgatory for the simple fact that he stuck around longer than he needed to in order to find Cas. So that's on Cas, because, no, ditching someone is not keeping them safe. I hate that lame trope, and the characters who pull it out of their ass don't get a lot of love from me.

Loved the hug, of course. ;)

But, seriously, Dean comes by his abandonment issues honestly - everyone leaves him, he's right. EVERYONE leaves him, when they're not just keeping him in the dark.

I do think this Dean is broken, sure - he's been broken since Hell, if not since his mother died and his father dumped everything on him way too young. But this time it's different - I don't think Dean sees himself as broken necessarily. Pure and raw and with a clarity of purpose - but I don't think Dean believes he's broken this time, and that's both scary and very sad.

Sam, of course, is always ready to ditch Dean at the drop of a hat, and you're correct that he has a right to do that - though he's a hypocrite about it because he doesn't and does and then comes back, and all that takes a huge toll on Dean's emotions. So, yeah, I think Sam should get out of hunting completely and leave Dean to it. Or he should become the new Bobby - set up base somewhere so he can play house with the vet, and still be willing to do research if Dean or some other hunter needs info over the phone. But aside from that, he needs to stay away from Dean so Dean can learn to be okay with his absence, and maybe team up with someone who wants to team with Dean, wants to work with him, and doesn't constantly see him as a burden for still being alive, as Sam does.

Love those Benny gifs! :D

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

Dean became more and more brutal in Purgatory for the simple fact that he stuck around longer than he needed to in order to find Cas. So that's on Cas, because, no, ditching someone is not keeping them safe. I hate that lame trope, and the characters who pull it out of their ass don't get a lot of love from me.
I'm so very happy I am not alone in this because all I could see around was D/C fans in awe for that scene and I was like "how is this even possible?" "how can't they see what he did to Dean"?.

EVERYONE leaves him, when they're not just keeping him in the dark.
THIS THIS THIS.

But this time it's different - I don't think Dean sees himself as broken necessarily. Pure and raw and with a clarity of purpose - but I don't think Dean believes he's broken this time, and that's both scary and very sad.
I agree it's scary and sad because he doesn't see how damaged he is or better, he does and he accepts it.

he doesn't and does and then comes back, and all that takes a huge toll on Dean's emotions.
WORD.

But aside from that, he needs to stay away from Dean so Dean can learn to be okay with his absence, and maybe team up with someone who wants to team with Dean, wants to work with him, and doesn't constantly see him as a burden for still being alive, as Sam does.
Amen to all of this. I want someone to choose Dean.

[lidia1991-an.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of you!And I want someone to choose Dean too.

I hope Benny does that!:)

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

Same here hon.

[vella-amor-dm.livejournal.com]

Dean doesn’t need people to die for him, he wants and needs friends who are willing to be with him and fight with him. With, not for. Because you know…after all, the aftermath is that he is alone and a lonely life is not something Dean deserves.
yes!!!!

that said, i still enjoyed the scene with Cas in purgatory, and Cas' reasons. i did find it noble, but i also agree with what you said. my heard broke for both of them.

[x5vale.livejournal.com]

I didn't find them noble, I did find them annoying because ut was another way to say that it was Dean's fault...