Rambling, thinking about SPN....
Nov. 13th, 2012 11:27 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
x5vale*waves*
How are you doing flist?
I've been pretty busy and honestly with not much to say.
I've been caught up on Twitter and Tumblr by my Haven family and wow...it feels so good. We are few, we get along and we just ignore the wank.
It was a long time since I have felt that way fandom wise. I have never wanted to be involved in the TVD fandom because it's like the SPN one (even though they say they are not, trust me they are LOL)...lots of bashing, wank and wasting time badmouthing all the characters they don't like. It's Damon vs Stefan exactly like it's Dean vs Sam. Of course not the entire fandom! Some comms are safe places to just discuss the show.
Speaking of SPN...I just have all the brotherly bond feels....
source
More about SPN and Sam under the cut. Of course it's just my take on Sam and Sam girls are going to disagree.
... because after two seasons in which I didn't feel anything about this show anymore, now I have all the feels back. The thing is I have all the brotherly love feels and the show is destryoing this bond once again.
I don't blame Carver. I blame Kripke and mostly Sera Gamble. Kripke has never been able to give to Sam the characterization he wanted. The description of who Sam should have been and who he is don't match. I see all the positive traits of Sam which are pointed out by his fans. I do. But those positive things are gone. Gamble kinda erased them when she tried to picture Sam as the perfect character who can't do wrong. The result was a flat character without any kind of growth.
We haven't never really seen SPN developing Sam inner turmoil or personal growth journey in years now.
Where is he now? I am torn. Some times I think he is really just trying to re-adjust after a year alone but most of the times I think he doesn't give a damn about his brother...the final scene of Southern Comfort is cruel for a fan who has loved the brotherly bond more than anything else in this show. It was because there Sam was just shutting Dean out. He was telling him that he didn't care. Not once, since Dean is back, I have seen Sam symphatizing with his brother. Not once. No matter what the explanation will be. This is not something I can forget and I don't want Dean to forget it either, unless it's properly addressed and discussed. No wonder Dean now thinks that Benny is the only one he can rely on.
Sam can do whatever he wants, seriously. He is entitled to choose for himself, to give up, to retire and live an apple-pie life. I don't agree with this choice, but I respect it.
What Sam can't do is blaming other people for the choices he has made and for the ones he is not making. I just want him to choose, I want him to address his feelings and his issues. To vomit them out, but then...then I want him to stop and actually listen. Because Sam doesn't listen. He doesn't want to know what's going on with his brother. He just wants Dean to say that everything it's ok, so he can move on.
I think they both carry the blame for what happened to their relationship, but honestly I do really think that at this point, it's not Dean who can be the understanding one. It's not Dean the one who has to get over his own issues, because this is the very first time he is finally admitting all of them. It's Sam's turn to show if he is mature enough to deal with them. It's Sam who has to show if he really cares about his brother, because right now the vibe I get is that Sam doesn't care enough. He doesn't see through his brother.
Challenging him on Benny is likely the most stupid thing he could have done, because this way he is pushing Dean away. If he used that as an emotional manipulation (as he has always done with Dean), he failed miserably because Dean's reaction was exactly the opposite. Dean took it and without a word, he said that they can't be on the same side on this.
How are the writers going to fix this? They can, I think, but they need to be brave and totally honest facing the fact that they probably are dealing with a character whose charcterization has been like that since the very beginning.
Those things a lot of Sam fans disliked about him in S4 have always been there. Since S1, since Asylum, since Scarecrow...Sam is still turning against his family, but he 's not the kid who left for Standford anymore. It's time for him to grow up because I think he hasn't when it comes to his relationship with his family.
How are you doing flist?
I've been pretty busy and honestly with not much to say.
I've been caught up on Twitter and Tumblr by my Haven family and wow...it feels so good. We are few, we get along and we just ignore the wank.
It was a long time since I have felt that way fandom wise. I have never wanted to be involved in the TVD fandom because it's like the SPN one (even though they say they are not, trust me they are LOL)...lots of bashing, wank and wasting time badmouthing all the characters they don't like. It's Damon vs Stefan exactly like it's Dean vs Sam. Of course not the entire fandom! Some comms are safe places to just discuss the show.
Speaking of SPN...I just have all the brotherly bond feels....
source
More about SPN and Sam under the cut. Of course it's just my take on Sam and Sam girls are going to disagree.
... because after two seasons in which I didn't feel anything about this show anymore, now I have all the feels back. The thing is I have all the brotherly love feels and the show is destryoing this bond once again.
I don't blame Carver. I blame Kripke and mostly Sera Gamble. Kripke has never been able to give to Sam the characterization he wanted. The description of who Sam should have been and who he is don't match. I see all the positive traits of Sam which are pointed out by his fans. I do. But those positive things are gone. Gamble kinda erased them when she tried to picture Sam as the perfect character who can't do wrong. The result was a flat character without any kind of growth.
We haven't never really seen SPN developing Sam inner turmoil or personal growth journey in years now.
Where is he now? I am torn. Some times I think he is really just trying to re-adjust after a year alone but most of the times I think he doesn't give a damn about his brother...the final scene of Southern Comfort is cruel for a fan who has loved the brotherly bond more than anything else in this show. It was because there Sam was just shutting Dean out. He was telling him that he didn't care. Not once, since Dean is back, I have seen Sam symphatizing with his brother. Not once. No matter what the explanation will be. This is not something I can forget and I don't want Dean to forget it either, unless it's properly addressed and discussed. No wonder Dean now thinks that Benny is the only one he can rely on.
Sam can do whatever he wants, seriously. He is entitled to choose for himself, to give up, to retire and live an apple-pie life. I don't agree with this choice, but I respect it.
What Sam can't do is blaming other people for the choices he has made and for the ones he is not making. I just want him to choose, I want him to address his feelings and his issues. To vomit them out, but then...then I want him to stop and actually listen. Because Sam doesn't listen. He doesn't want to know what's going on with his brother. He just wants Dean to say that everything it's ok, so he can move on.
I think they both carry the blame for what happened to their relationship, but honestly I do really think that at this point, it's not Dean who can be the understanding one. It's not Dean the one who has to get over his own issues, because this is the very first time he is finally admitting all of them. It's Sam's turn to show if he is mature enough to deal with them. It's Sam who has to show if he really cares about his brother, because right now the vibe I get is that Sam doesn't care enough. He doesn't see through his brother.
Challenging him on Benny is likely the most stupid thing he could have done, because this way he is pushing Dean away. If he used that as an emotional manipulation (as he has always done with Dean), he failed miserably because Dean's reaction was exactly the opposite. Dean took it and without a word, he said that they can't be on the same side on this.
How are the writers going to fix this? They can, I think, but they need to be brave and totally honest facing the fact that they probably are dealing with a character whose charcterization has been like that since the very beginning.
Those things a lot of Sam fans disliked about him in S4 have always been there. Since S1, since Asylum, since Scarecrow...Sam is still turning against his family, but he 's not the kid who left for Standford anymore. It's time for him to grow up because I think he hasn't when it comes to his relationship with his family.
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no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 11:24 am (UTC)The show will never let Sam truly grow up, to do so would change the dynamic and direction of the show completely and I don't think they are brave enough to do. At the moment it stick with a formula and rinse and repeat with a bit of a switch up of situations from time to time to spice it up. It really is getting old. I love Dean and I love the bond the brothers have, but I am sick and tired of the same cycle over and over again. As much as I desperately want to see Jensen as Dean forever...I really do think its time to round it up and let him be pick up for another show where he can be amazing again. :/
Oh and btw, I watch Haven too! :D
no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 11:31 am (UTC)I agree. I think they have the chance to change things but I don't think they will. Would be getting out of their comfor
no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 11:39 am (UTC)Yeah, not likely that they will push the show out of writers and producers comfort zone. Sadly this happens to many shows. So much potential for great story lines wasted because they are too scared to push the limits.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 04:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 12:20 pm (UTC)I know how you feel this season.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 07:45 pm (UTC)Sam is pissed cause he feels like he's nothing, cause he can't achieve anything he thinks can be important in life. But instead of thinking it through why he can't success he prefer to blame Dean on everything and it's just low.
You kjow, one of the things that makes me feel dusgusted about sam is that he truly isn't happy that his brother is back and alive. He never smiles at Dean, never stops bitching, he threatens a person who helped Dean for a year and why? Was it cause sam didn't actually want Dean back? Alive?
I don't know what the show will do to whitewash sam again for me it won't work.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 12:24 pm (UTC)I agree about the part that he is not happy to have Dean back right now, because it's not what he is showing and honestly? I am sick and tired to try to look beyond the surface.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 09:21 pm (UTC)Those things a lot of Sam fans disliked about him in S4 have always been there. Since S1, since Asylum, since Scarecrow...Sam is still turning against his family, but he 's not the kid who left for Standford anymore. It's time for him to grow up because I think he hasn't when it comes to his relationship with his family.
If you want to be honest, this is who Sam has been since the first time we see him on screen at Stanford, particularly when we later learn that he was going to propose to Jessica. When Sam is at Stanford, dating, intending to marry Jessica, he has cut himself off from his family. Jessica has no clue that he even has a brother and father, not judging from her reaction to Dean's appearance. In other words, Sam tells the supposed woman he loves NOTHING about his family, and from all accounts, never intended to.
Dean makes it clear that he has not called Sam for at least two years because that's the way Sam wanted it. Sam had obviously informed Dean "don't call me, I'll call you ... except not," at some point. Sam wants NO contact with his family, including Dean.
When we meet Sam, he has no idea if his father and brother are alive or dead. Knowing the family business, they could easily have both been killed at some point, and he knew that. But he doesn't care, again, because his intention is to keep them secret and out of his life with Jessica.
This is not the behavior or the actions of the fan-ficcy woobie carebear fandom has made up and glommed onto. The reality of Sam is and always has been darker and rather ugly when it comes to his feelings toward his family.
My thinking is that Sam has always suffered from Kripke's own dysfunctional outlook on his own family. Kripke clearly has no warm feelings for his own brother and father, and this was the mindset he used to portray Sam throughout the years, and that coupled with JP's billing and contractural issues has done Sam no favors whatsoever.
The other problem now is that JP prefers the brothers at odds and has done so since S4, on top of now wanting the brothers to be separated as often as possible too. JP has outright said this more than a few times in interviews and at conventions.
Part of the reason for wanting separation is the fact that both Js desire more time off after all these years, and that's the easiest way to accomplish cutting down their time on set by half when they're not working together. But I also think the other problem JP has is due to Jensen's popularity that has always trumped his own, both on screen and off.
Even so, and despite problems they've had with JP before, he still shouldn't be calling the shots creatively. So I really don't know what is going on anymore. Gamble is gone and doing her own thing, Kripke is completely involved in his successful Revolution, so two of the biggest problems - Kripke's personal familial dysfunction and Gamble's fangirly hormones regarding JP - are gone. So why isn't anything changing when it comes to the Winchesters' relationship? Why is it even worse than ever before? That's what confounds me right now.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 02:56 pm (UTC)Clearly he's being doing that for all his life and it's sad...but I think it was more about John than about Dean. OTOH Sam knew that he couldn't have any chance to convince Dean about how wrong John was.
But he doesn't care, again, because his intention is to keep them secret and out of his life with Jessica.
Yes, I think it was a self defense mechanism btw. I can't really think Sam didn't care...I think he was really thinkning that they were almost invincible.. we saw him caring in the next seasons.
The reality of Sam is and always has been darker and rather ugly when it comes to his feelings toward his family.
This is so very true.
Kripke clearly has no warm feelings for his own brother and father, and this was the mindset he used to portray Sam throughout the years, and that coupled with JP's billing and contractural issues has done Sam no favors whatsoever.
I don't know anything about this off set stories, but Kripke said that Sam was is avatar, so I guess you might have a point.
The other problem now is that JP prefers the brothers at odds and has done so since S4, on top of now wanting the brothers to be separated as often as possible too. JP has outright said this more than a few times in interviews and at conventions.
True.
But I also think the other problem JP has is due to Jensen's popularity that has always trumped his own, both on screen and off.
I am not going there. I don't know anything and don't want to speculate about this :)
So why isn't anything changing when it comes to the Winchesters' relationship? Why is it even worse than ever before? That's what confounds me right now.
Because I think they can't just make it better without dealing for real with the issues they boys have and have never solved. If carver is going to make Sam realize what he has done to his family, then he will succeed.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-14 12:58 am (UTC)i think the reason why i enjoyed season 4 Sam was because it showed his conflict between the person he could be and the person that he is now. Sam, imo, has an inferiority complex because John was clearly an amazing hunter, even though he was an awful dad, and Dean has taken up the torch and is just as good a hunter, if not better. Sam has always struggled with the hunting life - he lets his feelings cloud his judgement too much, and the demon blood life gave him a chance to get over his insecurities (which was obviously the wrong approach, but whatever. what's done is done). Sam's problem, like you said, is his inability to face himself - to look at the person he is, the choices he's made and see where HE has gone wrong.
i could write pages and pages about how Sam has wronged Dean, but i will stop here. i only care about Dean, and i care about the Sam-Dean relationship because i want Dean to be happy and content with his life. grow up Sammy. you can't hide behind the little brother banner any more - you've seen too much.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 03:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-15 01:56 pm (UTC)I always felt that he is not the "wonder-boy" a lot of fans and fanfiction-writers see in him.
"Sam can do whatever he wants, seriously. He is entitled to choose for himself, to give up, to retire and live an apple-pie life. I don't agree with this choice, but I respect it.
What Sam can't do is blaming other people for the choices he has made and for the ones he is not making."
Yes, exactly!
Thank you so much!
H.B.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-16 03:01 pm (UTC)Trust me, a lot of fans feels this way about Sam. I have in a long time.