Happy Monday and more thoughts about 602
Oct. 4th, 2010 10:18 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
x5valeHAPPY MOnday flist!
How was your weekend? Mine was good, very busy but good.
I have some more thoughts to share on 6.02. I have been asked why I am not talking about Sam right now.
Under the cut my answer.
-I am really enjoying the research about the monsters origins. I like to see how they are trying to create a world of relationship between the monsters. They are talking about family again and I like it.
-Dean is studying the situation around him. He is studying Sam, because he knows too well that Hell changes you forever. He is studying the Campbells because he doesn't trust them at all.
Dean is bottling up his feelings about everything because he needs to understand what's going on.
I'm pretty sure at some point he will punch Sam or kill Christian...;)
Dean is still Dean, but he is also a man whose trust has being betrayed again and again and his priorities has changed. No matter how much he loves Sam, he has Lisa and Ben in his life now. He has finally understood that Family is not only the one that has raised you. Family is the place where you feel safe and good. Where you feel loved and accepted for what you are. Where people want you to stick around because they actually want you, don't just need you.
So we have a new Dean and I do really hope the writers will address this aspect.
-The Campbells, Sam and Dean.
Dean is the stranger there. He has been exiliated for one year from the hunting world (note: he did exiliate himself and he made a big big mistake)and he got back just to find Sam teaming up with their so called family.
Sam has feeling with them, he apparently knows more than he says and the cousins seem to respect him. So in this situation Dean is the annoying, estranged element.
The snarky comments, the arrogant attitude are exagerated, probably to enforce the idea that the Campbells are a clan and that the Winchesters don't belong to it.
So why does Sam seem to adapt to them so well?
I have two theories:
1) he is pretending to side with them, just to find out what's going on with them. Evidence of it, it's that when he is alone with Dean, even if he is different and tougher, he is still Sam. See the convo they had in the motel room in 6.02.
2) Sam is with them because he gave up to his previous life with Dean and the unhealthy relationship they shared and he'd rather stay with them than alone once he got back from Hell.
This leads me straight to why I am not talking about Sam in my reviews so far.
Sam...there's something going on with him and I hope the writers will explore it soon instead of doing a whole season of "what's going on with Sam this time?" questions.
I want to hear him talking about himself, about his feelings and his fears. They never do that with Sam.
I'm not talking about Sam because I don't have anything to talk about so far.
Do I like this Sam? My answer is: he is indifferent to me, so if he is around or he isn't it's the same for me. Is this good? No, because he is the other main character of the show and I want to feel something about him. Indifference is never good.
So Sam is a character I have always had issues with, but I have always loved so far. The main thing I have never liked, don't like and won't ever like about him, it's how he considers his relationship with Dean. He loves Dean, he respects him, he admires him. True, but his actions, his thoughts, his words tell me that he always comes first. It's fine with me. It's how they have written him and it works for me.
I take what I can get. I like other things in Sam.
They are telling us the story of their brotherhood and of two persons that couldn't be more different than they are. I like it.
That being said, Sam is important in this show and I want for him something good.
So after two episodes, I don't know anything about him and what I see it's not something that intrigue me.
Let's wait and see :)
How was your weekend? Mine was good, very busy but good.
I have some more thoughts to share on 6.02. I have been asked why I am not talking about Sam right now.
Under the cut my answer.
-I am really enjoying the research about the monsters origins. I like to see how they are trying to create a world of relationship between the monsters. They are talking about family again and I like it.
-Dean is studying the situation around him. He is studying Sam, because he knows too well that Hell changes you forever. He is studying the Campbells because he doesn't trust them at all.
Dean is bottling up his feelings about everything because he needs to understand what's going on.
I'm pretty sure at some point he will punch Sam or kill Christian...;)
Dean is still Dean, but he is also a man whose trust has being betrayed again and again and his priorities has changed. No matter how much he loves Sam, he has Lisa and Ben in his life now. He has finally understood that Family is not only the one that has raised you. Family is the place where you feel safe and good. Where you feel loved and accepted for what you are. Where people want you to stick around because they actually want you, don't just need you.
So we have a new Dean and I do really hope the writers will address this aspect.
-The Campbells, Sam and Dean.
Dean is the stranger there. He has been exiliated for one year from the hunting world (note: he did exiliate himself and he made a big big mistake)and he got back just to find Sam teaming up with their so called family.
Sam has feeling with them, he apparently knows more than he says and the cousins seem to respect him. So in this situation Dean is the annoying, estranged element.
The snarky comments, the arrogant attitude are exagerated, probably to enforce the idea that the Campbells are a clan and that the Winchesters don't belong to it.
So why does Sam seem to adapt to them so well?
I have two theories:
1) he is pretending to side with them, just to find out what's going on with them. Evidence of it, it's that when he is alone with Dean, even if he is different and tougher, he is still Sam. See the convo they had in the motel room in 6.02.
2) Sam is with them because he gave up to his previous life with Dean and the unhealthy relationship they shared and he'd rather stay with them than alone once he got back from Hell.
This leads me straight to why I am not talking about Sam in my reviews so far.
Sam...there's something going on with him and I hope the writers will explore it soon instead of doing a whole season of "what's going on with Sam this time?" questions.
I want to hear him talking about himself, about his feelings and his fears. They never do that with Sam.
I'm not talking about Sam because I don't have anything to talk about so far.
Do I like this Sam? My answer is: he is indifferent to me, so if he is around or he isn't it's the same for me. Is this good? No, because he is the other main character of the show and I want to feel something about him. Indifference is never good.
So Sam is a character I have always had issues with, but I have always loved so far. The main thing I have never liked, don't like and won't ever like about him, it's how he considers his relationship with Dean. He loves Dean, he respects him, he admires him. True, but his actions, his thoughts, his words tell me that he always comes first. It's fine with me. It's how they have written him and it works for me.
I take what I can get. I like other things in Sam.
They are telling us the story of their brotherhood and of two persons that couldn't be more different than they are. I like it.
That being said, Sam is important in this show and I want for him something good.
So after two episodes, I don't know anything about him and what I see it's not something that intrigue me.
Let's wait and see :)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-10-04 08:41 am (UTC)I don't know if you saw the vid I posted for a vampire/Werewolf/supernatural show called "The Gates"? But one of the guys in the video/show watched it a few hrs ago & loved it and now he's pimping it out! Totally made my weekend:) Just wanted to share that w/my sis.
Love & hugs bb
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Date: 2010-10-04 08:44 am (UTC)Yeah I hate that feeling too.
Miss talking to you more.
Love you
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Date: 2010-10-04 08:52 am (UTC)Never thought one of the stars of a show I made a vid for would ever watch any of my vids much less love it and share it. Very cool compliment.
I know I need my boys back together.
Missing you too honey.
"love you"
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Date: 2010-10-04 09:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-04 09:25 am (UTC)In conclusion, I don't know what's going on with Sam, though I have ideas and theories, but yes, I would love to see him struggle more with his issues instead of getting this assholish behaviour and then ta-ta! explanation in a single episode.
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Date: 2010-10-04 09:39 am (UTC)We've been wondering if he is good, ok, has secrets and such since S1. It's part of Sam's characterization. It's like they can't write Sam open and without that air of mistery that is so strong when it comes to him.
It seems to be this to make Sam shine and special. You know how much I dissent.
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Date: 2010-10-04 09:49 am (UTC)I do see your point about Show and in particular, Sam. I guess that's why I just feel so blah about the show mainly because of Sam. I really love him as I do Dean but somehow the writers don't make it easy to understand his motivations, etc.
You're right-- Sam does make a lot of people in different to him and his actions (some even want him DEAD so that Dean can share the Impala with Castiel) and honestly that's mostly how it's been since the introduction of Castiel and the distrust/suspicion in the brothers' relationship.
I don't ever think that we will ever get a clear picture of how Sam really feels/thinks about Dean OR anything for that matter.
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that Sam is in league with Samuel and the cousins-- in fact, I think that it would make perfect sense especially if Sam was really dead/or is really Lucifer.
I guess that we'll find out really at the end of the season what is and isn't real or true.
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Date: 2010-10-04 10:08 am (UTC)Gaia has been sick but she is ok now.
I think Cas was just a plot device, like now teh Campbells, to break the blind faith Dean had in Sam. Anyway it was because of Sam's actions that Dean lost his faith in him, not because of Cas or whoever. It was because Sam broke the promise he made at the end of S3, it was because Sam trusted a demon. It's basically because Sam has always kept secretes from Dean.
Not easy to trust a person who behave like that. Love and trust are not on the same page sometimes.
Since I don't think Sam is Lucifer or he is dead, I don't know where they want to go with him but what I can say it's that I am tired and bored of this mistery around Sam. It's like a deja-vu and it doesn't make the character more interesting for me.
So I am willing to see the season without questioning or speculating. That's why I don't talk about Sam.
How are you?
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Date: 2010-10-09 02:46 pm (UTC)I agree with you about that--every time, I think that the boys talk about it a little and resolve things slightly, the next episode does something to crack the fragile trust between the boys. I don't think that Dean trusts Sam now and I don't think that Sam trusts Dean either. Hopefully, they'll find common ground that won't be shaken by conflict soon!
Since I don't think Sam is Lucifer or he is dead, I don't know where they want to go with him but what I can say it's that I am tired and bored of this mistery around Sam. It's like a deja-vu and it doesn't make the character more interesting for me. I totally agree with you!
I'm doing okay-ish hanging in there :D
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Date: 2010-10-11 09:20 am (UTC)Right now I don't see any.
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Date: 2010-10-04 10:21 am (UTC)So much this!!!! it's so fresh and new to see Dean in this surroundings. That's why i didn't want Dean to leave even if i knew it'll happen.
But i disagree on Sam (what's new, hah?). When he's with Dean he's not the same Sam at all and their meet in 6001 told me that when he wasn't happy at all to meet Dean.
There go your 2 theories. If it's #1 i still don't like how he behaves because he still told campbells about Dean's time in hell which for me is unforgivable.
If it #2 then i have no idea why he keep whining that he wants Dean around. The most logical way for them right now is to part their ways and maybe stay in touch but not hunt together. it's healthy for both of them.
As for Sam teaming up with Campbells it's IC for him. In S4 he easily replaced Dean with Ruby, right now it's the Campbells. Nothing changed with him and his attitude towards family.
And i wouldn't mind to hear from sam what he feels or thinks but i'm afraid instead of deep analysis we again will give another whitewashing which i hate. *sigh*
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Date: 2010-10-04 10:27 am (UTC)About 2, I think it's because Sam is torn and confused as much Dean is.
Yes I agree, Sam easily replaces Dean but I want to know why this time.
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Date: 2010-10-06 11:42 pm (UTC)About 2, I think it's because Sam is torn and confused as much Dean is
That's the thing. Whether it's the writing for Sam or JP's lack of enthusiasm in playing Sam but i don't see Sam being confused and torn. I don't see it in first level of perception and i don't see it on more subtle levels. So i assume he's not torn and not confused because i can't assume something i don't see.
As for a reason for replacement, i don't care actually. What's the point if it's Sam's MO which means he'll do it again?
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Date: 2010-10-07 08:17 am (UTC)I prefer to go further and think that Sam IS confused and that he is reacting that way because he doesn't know what else to do.
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Date: 2010-10-09 12:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-12 09:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-22 11:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-04 10:49 am (UTC)And happy Monday to you as well!
*hugs*
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Date: 2010-10-05 07:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-05 07:12 am (UTC)*Hugs*
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Date: 2010-10-04 11:06 am (UTC)exactly what i think. It have always sam family by the blood but too dean and lisa family of heart
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Date: 2010-10-05 07:00 am (UTC)He loves both, but now he knows the difference.
*hugs tight*
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Date: 2010-10-04 03:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-05 07:02 am (UTC)Should I think he is less smart than how much the writers have been telling us since S1?
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Date: 2010-10-05 07:29 am (UTC)Sam's pretty smart and he's always been sharp about noticing details.
I don't think Sam is less smart at all. If anything, he's learned a lot and gotten smarter. I do think it's really sad though how he's now so much like John. What he never wanted to be.
We've seen him gradually become less compassionate and more detached over the seasons.
I just hope that his ordeal with Luci hasn't burned out the last and final spark of humanity he has in him.
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Date: 2010-10-05 08:02 am (UTC)I hope so because he is manipulated again, the writers wouldn't do a good job with him.
I totally agree with you.
*hugs you*
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Date: 2010-10-05 04:30 pm (UTC);P
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Date: 2010-10-04 03:54 pm (UTC)Dean is my concern, and after season five's massive whitewashing of all of Sam's bad season four behavior being attributed to Dean being, well, alive and breathing, I know that SOP says no matter what's happening with Sam, he'll take no ownership for it. White paint will be raining down upon him by midseason hiatus, I have no doubt. It's a given, it's the way it is, neither Sera nor Kripke will allow Sam to be a dimensional character and have to be called on his own crap, so whatever, I don't care. I guess that makes me indifferent too, which I am, I admit.
What I do care about is that this time they don't try and blame Dean just because he's there. If Dean can escape the next round of Sam-whitewash relatively unscathed, I'll take it. I won't be happy because I'm never happy with how they write Sam, which includes how badly Sam continues to treat Dean. Just don't blame Dean for it this time, that's all I ask. If Dean doesn't take any blame or ownership for Sam's behavior, if he stops being assigned the role of Sam's scapegoat, I'll consider that a win.
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Date: 2010-10-04 06:31 pm (UTC)This show is nothing without the relationship between Sam and Dean. So anyone indifferent to Sam i just can't get inside their head. I couldn't watch the show if I didn't like Dean. I find that to be the biggest problem with fandom.
I am a Samgirl first and always however I have never hated Dean nor would I because he's a big reason Sam is who he is and vice versa. Dean's made a lot of mistakes and is not some whiter than white character. In season two where he was hitting Sam in the face and taking the anger of his father's death out on Sam, everyone was so quick to let him off. But with Sam it's different.
My problem with the writers is how often they paint Dean in a woe is me state where everyone is big mean old betrayers and Dean does nothing wrong yet again. They are more than happy to throw Sam to the wolves time and time again and its really unfair to Sam fans and fans of the show in general where they never ever let us inside Sam's head but we seem permenantly in Deans.
To be honest I'm borderline giving up on the show I once loved because they are screwing over Jared, Sam fans and the show with this ridiculous ignoring of his character. It will never be what Season 1 and 2 was.
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Date: 2010-10-04 07:07 pm (UTC)But we all have our favorites, and we're entitled to them, or him (or her). However, I shouldn't have said "never", actually, because in the first two seasons, while it wasn't perfect, I was a firm believer in the brotherly bond. I thought it was terrific - until I was told in Fallen Idols that it never was. Gee, thanks for the heads up - not. That does make it harder to watch the reruns, thank you very much.
While I had problems with parts of season three, I still bought the bond. It was really hard to sometimes impossible in season four, I won't say it wasn't; but I was still absolutely convinced it would be fixed in season five, and all would be well.
Then we got season five, and instead Kripke essentially killed the bond for me, and that is not what I wanted to happen because it does make it harder to be a complete fan. And so far this year, I'm still not seeing it. Maybe I'm not supposed to yet - right now I'm going to assume that's the case. Maybe Sera will do what Kripke did not and actually legitimately fix it and make me believe again. More power to her, I'm willing to be convinced; but it's going to be a hard sell.
All that being said, I don't hate Sam, but I am completely indifferent to him right now, and again, that's Kripke's doing because, in his desire to protect his avatar, I think he actually did Sam a lot of disservice instead. But what I really-really don't want to see is what I saw last year in terms of the blame-game, because that won't make me a fan at all. That's what I'm digging my heels in against - if we get up to and past the Sam-reveal without a replay of last year, then I'll relax and start to care a lot more about the overall picture again.
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Date: 2010-10-05 07:15 am (UTC)be indifferent doens't mean not to like a character. You should know that I have never hated Sam and I don't now. I'm just waiting and see if they can give more to him because right now his character doesn't give anything to me and I don't like this.
I disagree on your take on Dean, because Dean has done a lot of mistakes and he has been wrong a lot of times, but I do agree that since the special children thing, they have pictured Sam as the dark one and Dean as his opposite.
I have never liked this and I don't like that they are doing it all over again.
Again yes, I am with you as I wrote in my post, they never show us Sam's inner feelings but it's not Dean (or Jensen) that has to be blamed.
Honestly I think that the writers don't exactly know how to write Sam and how to make him interesting without giving him some dark secret.
It's a shame because, honestly, Sam has potential. Just like Dean.
Just so you know.
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Date: 2010-10-06 12:00 am (UTC)I want both the boys POV back and I want equal storytelling and character development for both that's all x
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Date: 2010-10-06 07:10 am (UTC)Agreed, I want the same things you want. That's why I wrote that post.
*hugs you*
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Date: 2010-10-05 07:05 am (UTC)I agree that Dean is blamed almost for everything but I am not so sure the show said that Sam was not responsible for his actions. Actually I think S5 did exactly the opposite after the awful lines in Fallen Idols.
But yes don't blame Dean for whatever Sam does.
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Date: 2010-10-04 10:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-05 07:07 am (UTC)I think they will be back evntually but at the moment, just for hunting, not to be brothers again.
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Date: 2010-10-05 12:12 am (UTC)im waiting as well, and i hope they dont delay the situation because it might be bad for sam
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Date: 2010-10-05 07:08 am (UTC)A lot of Sam girls are not happy with this Sam and I can see why.
Thanks :)
back!
Date: 2010-10-07 07:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-05 01:40 am (UTC)especially: when he is alone with Dean, even if he is different and tougher, he is still Sam.
i am so curious as to why Sam is behaving weirdly, and since the tagline of the season is 'trust', the main issue is, when will he tell Dean?
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Date: 2010-10-05 01:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-05 06:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-05 06:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-05 07:08 am (UTC)