No more rant, I'm feeling better.
Feb. 15th, 2008 06:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
x5valeOk you remember my rant in the REVIEW post and the one which followed?
Let's say I chilled out :)
I do love show.
Mostly because of what![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
phantomas told me.
She basically said:
...the narrative structure is very tight and coherent, Dean never remembers, so why should it change at the end? It wouldn't make sense.
Sam is the one with the knowledge that time is repeating (initially) and then he is the one the Trickster..well, tricks.
It's only the Trickster saying that Dean has gone to hell, and he's (in my interpretation anyway) saying it only to hurt Sam, to push him.
Sam is still stuck in an extended version of the time loop, for what I gather.
I just see it as the mechanics of the Tricker's trick, Dean's not remembering, because there is nothing for him to remember, because it never happened, like it never happened all the times before.
I tried considering what you wrote as I was watching it, but...I still see it that way.
if Dean really were dead, I seriously doubt Sam's Pleading Puppy Eyes could have him back from Hell, you know? Which is the biggest clue to the fact that Dean isn't dead and that Sam only believes it because the Trickster makes him. Sam's anguish and grief aren't any the less real of course.
I think you are right.
I still think Sam should have talked to Dean (and Dean to Sam last week) and that it's not important if this is all true or not for Dean, because Sam will be affected a lot by what happened since he actually lived that life and it wasn't a pleasant one , but now everything it's more accetable.
I think Kripke has brought back some old stories in order to focus the show on both the main storylines (the deal and Sam's dark side) and I like it. Not excited by the whole anti-christ thing, but it has always been his plan, so I can live with it.
That aside, the first of Dean's deaths? Heartbreaking. Jensen deserves lots of awards. It's such a pity that SPN is on the CW, really.
WOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRDDDDDDDDD!!!
Thanks Silvia.
RATINGS are up to 2.94 millions and considering SPN was preempted for a game in some areas, it did good!!!
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6...451/m/180104301
*is happy*
Let's say I chilled out :)
I do love show.
Mostly because of what
phantomas told me.She basically said:
...the narrative structure is very tight and coherent, Dean never remembers, so why should it change at the end? It wouldn't make sense.
Sam is the one with the knowledge that time is repeating (initially) and then he is the one the Trickster..well, tricks.
It's only the Trickster saying that Dean has gone to hell, and he's (in my interpretation anyway) saying it only to hurt Sam, to push him.
Sam is still stuck in an extended version of the time loop, for what I gather.
I just see it as the mechanics of the Tricker's trick, Dean's not remembering, because there is nothing for him to remember, because it never happened, like it never happened all the times before.
I tried considering what you wrote as I was watching it, but...I still see it that way.
if Dean really were dead, I seriously doubt Sam's Pleading Puppy Eyes could have him back from Hell, you know? Which is the biggest clue to the fact that Dean isn't dead and that Sam only believes it because the Trickster makes him. Sam's anguish and grief aren't any the less real of course.
I think you are right.
I still think Sam should have talked to Dean (and Dean to Sam last week) and that it's not important if this is all true or not for Dean, because Sam will be affected a lot by what happened since he actually lived that life and it wasn't a pleasant one , but now everything it's more accetable.
I think Kripke has brought back some old stories in order to focus the show on both the main storylines (the deal and Sam's dark side) and I like it. Not excited by the whole anti-christ thing, but it has always been his plan, so I can live with it.
That aside, the first of Dean's deaths? Heartbreaking. Jensen deserves lots of awards. It's such a pity that SPN is on the CW, really.
WOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRDDDDDDDDD!!!
Thanks Silvia.
RATINGS are up to 2.94 millions and considering SPN was preempted for a game in some areas, it did good!!!
http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6...451/m/180104301
*is happy*
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 05:44 pm (UTC)And I am so loving you right now and wanna give you big hug just like Sam gave it to Dean...*Hug*
Everything is nicely put by every review I read, and it always warm my heart that this show has unblievable and very intellegent following..Just wooW...*amazed*
My only conclusion after watching this episode is very simple and I am very happy that Kripke made this point very clear..that
Sam is nothing, just nothing without Dean and Dean is an absolute must for him and for the show...
And it is a show about two brothers not just about Sam....
IMO it was conveyed very well...I did not find Dean dying funny except when the furniture piece fall onto him...Truth is I hate seeing Dean dying over and over..
I just hate it...I love Dean so much...just hate it...
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 05:55 pm (UTC)I don't agree with this, for what we saw Sam was nothing because he let his anger eat him alive, if he can learn to let Dean go (like Dean asked, like they said to the Roadkill girl and to the doctor in Bedtime story), he will be not nothing.
I'm starting to think this is what Sam has to learn to do.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 09:38 pm (UTC)Both Dean and Sam have to fight their issues, but, although I have always said that Sam can actually live without Dean, now I'm not so sure about it anymore...
In any case, without one of the boy there would be no show.
*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 09:59 pm (UTC)Yep, but after the 3.11 episode I think this is the only reason why Dean should be alive, I would like that there will be a reason linked to the storyline.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 10:10 pm (UTC)The deal is his storyline, him being an hunter is his storyline. Dean is there because he his special and important in his own way...honestly? I don't care if he isn't a special children of if he isn't the anti-christ.
His being normal makes him special.
I mean without Sam we will have no show too but not because he is the chosen one, but because there won't be any brotherly relationship. Hence no SPN.
We could have Dean or Sam hunting and living their life in their own world. I would like to see a Dean spinoff, but would not be SPN.
Guess we do agree to disagree on this one.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 10:44 pm (UTC)I don't want super Dean, I like he is a human being and nothing else. But I don't like the deal storyline,I did't like it that much from the beginnin, but I was hoping that maybe I could change my mind, now I want it to end as soon as possible.
Yep, he is an hunter, but the "saving people, hunting things" is not so much in the focus, it's more the deal, the is Sam ok stuff... They took off the line ( "saving people, hunting things)from the "recap- start" of the episodes too; I kinda miss it.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 10:07 pm (UTC)True, but sometimes you don't have choise and the life teaches things, even if you would not to learn them.
The thing I found intersting was that after Dean's death Sam was angry with the world and he become Terminetor 2.0 and he didn't care about killing innocent; Dean after Sam's death was angry with himself and the one he killed (with the deal) was himself.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 10:13 pm (UTC)Sam is more predictable imo.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 09:33 pm (UTC)GIANT WORD TO THAT!!!
I want Dean alive and kicking till the very end of the show.
*hugs you*
no subject
Date: 2008-02-16 12:25 am (UTC)*Hugs back*
Dean will definitely kick every demon butt till the end..I have no confusion in that...*lol*
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 05:44 pm (UTC)You're very welcome :)
We love the boys (and DAD!) so, don't we? :D
And OH but the RATINGS, YES!!! That's such good news!
I'm glad you're not terribly upset anymore *nods* And yes, absolutely, Sam HAS changed, because he can remember and he has to think about it all, his reaction of shutting himself down (and becoming a lot more like John than ever) and what alternatives are there. If any.
Because, without Dean...eh. Life's pretty bleak. (how did Jensen manage to make Deamon!Dean so scary, uh? I keep watching that scene and..it slays me. It's like it's not the same actor, almost!)
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 07:52 pm (UTC)Because, without Dean...eh. Life's pretty bleak. (how did Jensen manage to make Deamon!Dean so scary, uh? I keep watching that scene and..it slays me. It's like it's not the same actor, almost!)
Dean is like a ray of sun Sam's life and how did Jensen?
I'm biased here, but hon, his talent is shiny and amazing.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 06:05 pm (UTC)Thanks!
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Date: 2008-02-15 07:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-16 01:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 06:10 pm (UTC)The Trickster changes the reality right? He didn't "work" with dreams and stuff like that... On "What it is and..." we didn't see Real!Sam, but at the end we understand that Real!Sam was looking for Dean while Dean was in Dreamland... So where was Dean for 3 months? Not in the hell, fine, so what? Did he sleep the whole time, was he in a vacuum with no time, no space... I guess is not important where was Dean.
More I think about this episode and less I understand it! I swear.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:10 pm (UTC)Otherwise my rant would come back in full force.
*hugs*
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Date: 2008-02-15 09:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 09:42 pm (UTC)I wonder if the trickster created a dark future for Sam without Dean or if those were Sam's fears.
The third option is that the au he created was the real one Sam would live without Dean, at least at the beginning.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 09:49 pm (UTC)(also, I was happy to see the Trickster again, it's a good touch in the continuity and mythology of the series, and I like the actor, he's cool :D
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Date: 2008-02-15 09:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 09:54 pm (UTC)I just have to give in and accept that my brain can understand the sense of this episode, maybe I will in the future.
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Date: 2008-02-15 09:59 pm (UTC)I think Sam actually lived that life for 3 months. He lived and felt everything.
Obviously in that life Dean was dead and when Sam came back, it was Wedndesday and Dean was where he was supposed to be.
It's like the time for Sam passed quicker than for Dean.
You know, I think the writers of this episode didn't think at all about us fans, analyzing every single bit of the episode!
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 06:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:08 pm (UTC)*hugs*
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Date: 2008-02-15 08:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:13 pm (UTC)btw, how much scifi are you familiar with?
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:18 pm (UTC)X Files, Dark Angel, Battlestar of Galactica, all the Whedon stuff and I don't even remember what more.
I don't know, I just don't like the implications of Dean not aware...guess I have to wait and see what this episode means for the whole season.
*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:21 pm (UTC)Still, don't like it. Let's see.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 08:23 pm (UTC)i love all things timetravel, but that's just me.
right, we shall see.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-15 06:26 pm (UTC)I'm glad you are not upset anymore.
I'm also wondering if perhaps this is was a wake-up call for Sam and the path he's walking, the fact that he's becoming more ruthless and willing to sacrifice human being (which the show has made a point of showing lately) and that if Sam goes on like that, it will bring only blood and pain.
And now my pause is finished! Arghh!
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Date: 2008-02-15 08:07 pm (UTC)I do think it's a wake up call for Sam. I should have written it somewhere...
HAPPY WE!!!
What about the work?
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Date: 2008-02-16 01:27 am (UTC)Of course that's the reason Dean doesn't remeber! it's clear for me now! It's def a loop - 100 Tuesdays first and 3 months w/o Dean later! It's the loop! It was just lesson, Dean never die in real life! Cos Trikster can't bring Dean or anybody from Hell, he can just undo his own tricks!
Oh, thanx so much for this revelation! I can breathe easily now.
no subject
Date: 2008-02-18 08:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-19 08:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-16 08:38 am (UTC)*Smishes*
*grins*
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Date: 2008-02-18 08:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-17 03:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-17 07:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-17 08:42 pm (UTC)I had some reservations about this episode too. I think it was rushed into production because of the strike and it shows a little in the finished product. It was still pretty good, though.
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Date: 2008-02-18 08:30 am (UTC)And this doesn't surprise me.
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Date: 2008-02-19 01:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-19 09:07 am (UTC)*grins*
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Date: 2008-02-20 02:32 am (UTC)