x5vale: (bloodsharing)
[personal profile] x5vale
fuckyeahdeanbenny
Credit goes where it's due.

Warning: NOT SAM FRIENDLY. Well actually I don't like Sam right now, but I like the potential he has in this season.


-"He's my friend.." I won't even try to explain why Dean had a point when he said that Sam just abandoned him, while Benny didn't because seriously it's so obvious....
Also, Sam is having an understandable reaction too, especially considering their previous actions and thoughts on the whole "killing or not killing monsters" matter. Personally, monsters are not all the same and people do change. But what Sam has not understood about his brother in all his life, is that Dean has never killed anyone without a reason. Never.
Yes, Dean killed Amy but don't forget that Sam killed Dean's daughter. They are even in this department. Benny is totally another story.

-Garth!!!! This guy really cracks me up every time. Sometimes he is the only voice of reason in this show.

-Dean doesn't like Garth mimicking Bobby at all. LOL.

-Sorry not interested in Amelia's life and in Sam's realationship with her. Probably because the actress leaves me completely indifferent.

-"You're not Bobby". Oh Dean I get you are hurt, but Garth was right. Bobby was not just yours and Garth is hurting too. So yeah...he doesn't deserve to be treated like that. Anyway, Dean's change in attitude was his way to say that he was sorry about it.

-Sammy...he called him Sammy again. It gives me all the feels...

-So Dean gets the spectre inside and this is why he is going to talk to Sam. Well actually talking pointing a gun at him. I have to say, I don't like that there's must be a supernatural event to make these boys talk (like being demon possessed, the sirens and now a spectre) because I would like them to be mature enough to actually confront each other. But these are the Winchesters and they are both too messed up to act like they should, so I can live with this because at least Dean's issues are coming out.
That scene was very much alike to the Asylum one. Everything Sam said there was true. It was how Sam was feeling about his brother, so mirroring that one scene, this one is bringing up everything Dean is feeling.

-"Those are choices". Yes, they are. Yes Sam always chose. The only thing he didn't choose was to be marked when he was a newborn, but everything Dean said it's true. I think Sam has never fully realized how Dean perceived his choices and this is also because Dean never really held him accountable for them. When he did, he also said that there was not enough time to waste regrettting them and that they were brothers and should just stick together and move on...but we can't really get over some things because all we feel about some actions is deception. We feel hurt, betrayed, deceived.
"Yeah, I might have lied, but I never once betrayed you. I never once left you die". This is pure gold, because it's exactly the story of their realtionship. Dean has hidden things from Sam, he has made mistakes, but he has never left, he has never given up on him, he has never betrayed him. Dean spent a whole year with Lisa keeping looking for Sam, hurting because he thought he was dead while he was alive, hunting without him. Sam and Bobby did betray Dean keeping that secret from him. And since Sam was soulless, he didn't do to protect his own brother. He did because he didn't care and he didn't need him...only when he needed Dean he got back and screwed with his brother's life again. Sam once again, chose. Damn this wasn't meant to be a "not friendly" Sam post, but I can't even start to write down all the feels I have right now. It's like 7 years of issues I have had with their relationship have exploded. I know, there's Sam side too and I know Dean has done wrong things too....but imho there's a difference. There are serious mistakes that can be fixed and betrayals that change relationships forever, even when you mend them, they won't ever be the same.

-"Benny has been more than a brother for me this past year, than you've ever been". Ouch this hurts, but I get it. The meaning of that whole scene is clear.
It's not like Dean meant that Cas and Sam had just let him down and done nothing good for him. It's not this, but the diferrence between them and Benny it's that Benny has been the only one who has never let him down...so far.
I'm quoting this girl from TUMBLR ambular-d
it’s possible to debate whether either Sam or Cas has done more good or bad—for Dean personally or for the world in general—but there’s no doubt they’ve both made some jaw-droppingly horrible blunders in defiance of every warning, plea and threat Dean threw at them. (I’ve discussed the mantle of moral authority that the show tends, I think erroneously, to bestow upon Dean elsewhere, and I’m sort of hoping this Benny situation will turn out to be the thing that derails that trend.)

I remember someone (can’t remember who now, apologies) saying that Dean holds himself to impossibly high standards; something he inherited from John, probably. As a result, he tends to do the same thing to other people, and to be disproportionately crushed when they don’t live up to his expectations—as will inevitably happen with everyone at some point.
I think that’s what Dean was expressing in that scene: Benny is the only person who (so far, at least) has risen to the occasion every single time Dean has asked anything of him, even when Dean had good reason to expect that Benny wouldn’t. Unfortunately, since Benny—even if he actually is a good guy—is certainly not perfect either, it’s only a matter of time before that changes.


She nailed it perfectly imo. Dean claims too much from himself and he expects the others to do the same. I can so totally relate, because I do the same and while rationally I know it's not totally fair because we are not all alike, I hurt more and feel more when someone let me down. This is what happens to Dean too. But here the point is that Dean is right and Sam is wrong. I don't even want to start to question it because they come from two very different situations (Dean was in Purgatory and please don't understimate what it means and Sam was on Earth).

-Sam talking about losing Dean...*sighs*

-No Sam no...for a second in that flashback I felt for you. I did really feel for you and now you are turning everything on Dean again? Haven't you listened to your brother? Have you tried to symphatize? Have you felt his pain? Sorry Sam, you were left on Earth living your life. As much as you were hurting, Dean was not just hurting in Purgatory. He was fighting, he was trying to survive. Sam...no, just no. NO NO NO. This is all wrong, your reaction is wrong, your reasons are wrong. I hope there's more. I hope the writers will give you an explanation because if this had to be the episode where I should have felt your pain and your sorrow, I didn't. I just saw a self-righteous, selfish person who thinks to be the victim, who thinks to be right, who thinks he deserves to be elsewhere with someone else (well Sam please go, just go).

That line about Benny...That line was horrible, cruel, uncalled for.
Does he want to kill him because he is a vampire or because he is between Sam and Dean? Because he and Dean share something Sam doesn't have anymore? Because is he jealous? I think the real issue is that for the very first time Sam is realizing that he is not the focus of Dean's life anymore. Dean is not there to forgive him and get over it this time. Sam is trying to make an old dynamic work but it doesn't anymore. Every time he has threated Dean with "if you don't stop, I run away", Dean has always decided to get over their issues, but this time it's not going to work. Benny is the one who can really be a threat to Sam in his way of considering Dean his. Sam is possessive of Dean, Sam considers Dean as his own property and now he is not anymore, because Dean has changed his attitude. Sam is realizing that he can't take Dean for granted anymore, hence this rage. I hope to see this developed. I have to say, and the writers are doing good, for the first time in years Sam is having some kind of development because he has now the chance to understand that he can't take Dean for granted. Dean punched him in the face when he told him that line about Benny being more than a brother than he has ever been. It hurt Sam, but it was due because Sam must understand that he has to change if he still wants Dean in his life.

Let's hope this thing won't get lost.


Date: 2012-11-08 11:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelocation.livejournal.com
Lol about your episode reaction, i'm not gonna say much, because as you probably imagine, I don't agree with you :P
But I just wanted to say hi to ya and ask you how you're doing?

Date: 2012-11-09 11:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
I am ok, just busy with RL.

How are you and your little family?

Yep I imagine you don't agree with me :)

Date: 2012-11-08 11:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lisichechka.livejournal.com
ITA to almost everything there!
It is clear as a day that sam is just jealous and pissed off cause he's losing control over Dean and can't take it like a man. What an asshole! But then it's sam so...

The only part i disagree with is garth and Dean's reaction to him. Dean was right to tell him he's not bobby. Yes someone had to fill the void but do what bobby did doesn't mean to use his words and stuck his nose in other people's businesses. He didn't know what was going on and Dean told him it's not for him to be shared with but he still pocked that wound. it's unhealthy.

You know what? After (especially) this ep i don't get why is sam still here ruining Dean's life? He wants out? Good. Don't the door hit him on his way out. Why is he staying?
I know ;) Cause he can't stand a thought that Dean may survive without him and never meet him again, that Dean is capable of making real friends and doesn't need sam anymore. Sam is so pathetic i can't even... i just wish him go. As far away from Dean as possible.

Date: 2012-11-09 11:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
I am a little torn about Garth. My first impression was to like him but after some serious thinking I guess I agree with you. I mean it's true he did miss Bobby too, but it was turned into a caricature.

Sam doesn't want really out. Sam wants Dean to be his. Benny is the very first one who shifted Dean's focus. Sam can't deal with this.

Date: 2012-11-09 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shoofus.livejournal.com
actually dean's daughter was about to shift dean's focus and sam killed her, killed her before she tried to kill dean...she never killed anyone, unlike Amy who ate people all the time if she thought they were 'bad' and justified killing them for that reason...

dean killed a monster that killed humans, sam killed a girl who was saying she would not...

and sam is now wanting to kill benny because why, because he is a vampire? sam was the one who spared the vampire nest before when they were peaceful...why is benny suddenly so different, why is sam leaping to judge him immediately as evil without even finding out if he is killing people or not...

Amy killed and intended to keep on killing when ever she decided it was necessary...

Dean's daughter promised not to kill, and never killed anyone...and Benny stopped decades ago...so how is Dean taking down a monster who did kill humans the same as Sam executing Dean's daughter and threatening to kill the vampire who saved him from purgatory? Sam does really seem petty and jealous here, very much so.

Date: 2012-11-12 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
actually dean's daughter was about to shift dean's focus and sam killed her, killed her before she tried to kill dean...she never killed anyone, unlike Amy who ate people all the time if she thought they were 'bad' and justified killing them for that reason...
I agree, but since she was a monster too in Sam's eyes I can see why he did what he did.

dean killed a monster that killed humans, sam killed a girl who was saying she would not...
You know Sam fand are going to never accept this, right? LOL. Btw deep down I am with you on this.

About Benny, he doesn't want to kill him because he is a vampire, but because he can't accept that he is Dean's friend. He can't deal with the fact that Benny is coming between him and Dean.

You got it. LOL!

Date: 2012-11-12 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lisichechka.livejournal.com
Heh :) I know you see my point :)

Did you notice how sam's view of cas shifted? he was so not a fan of him before when Dean-cas friendship was on top. But now when there's Benny and Dean's focus is on him sam suddenly so fond of cas he's worried about him way more that he could pretend to worry about Dean!

Date: 2012-11-13 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
Because with Cas, Sam was there. Benny it's only Deans.

Date: 2012-11-08 11:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] apieceofcake.livejournal.com
I think the flashback story telling works for Dean but in my mind it's working against Sam. I need to see Sam in that year showing emotion and reactions.. Maybe it is depression but I need more ...everything in realtime is just blah..he just comes off to me as resenting Dean and resenting the life! At the end I'd have told him to piss off frankly :-(

Date: 2012-11-09 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
THIS THIS THIS!

The lack of emotionsfrom Sam is disturbing.

Date: 2012-11-08 12:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stjra.livejournal.com
*Waves*

Hey Val, long time no tv converse!

Sam made me so damn wild tonight, I just wanted to slap him. Self righteous, arrogant, son of a... *takes a deep breath*

All I can say is I love that this show is making me so emotional after all these years and go show for dividing fandom all over again! LOL!

*hugs you*

Date: 2012-11-09 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
So happy to see you again! Do you think you will stick around for a while?

ITA!

*loves*

Date: 2012-11-08 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metallidean-grl.livejournal.com
AFter this episode I have so much love and heart aches for Dean and so much anger, irritation and loathing towards Sam, I don't know how to sort through all these feelings and emotions. We are definitely on the same page when it comes to Dean and Sam in this episode. My first reaction with Sam at the end of this episode was - I hate him, I literally hate him right now. But after viewing the episode a second time and letting it all sit overnight, I have tempered a little bit, but, I still have A LOT of negative feelings for Sam,

I think Sam has never fully realized how Dean perceived his choices and this is also because Dean never really held him accountable for them. This is so so so true. Every time Sam screwed up, the boys had more important matters to deal with and they really needed to be in tune with each other, so Dean had to force down any negative feelings he had about Sam because at that time the task at hand was more important. But, those emotions can only be held down for so long and with Sam not looking for Dean while he was in Purgatory brought them all back up to the surface, the new betrayal, and all the old betrayals and now Dean is finally dealing with them. Sam has to be accountable, he can't glide by anymore - Sam has always complained about how he feels treated like the "little brother" with Dean and not on equal footing. Well, Sam, you are finally getting what you wished for. Dean is treating you on equal footing and you are now going to have to face up to your actions. Dean is not going to let you get away with it any longer. Somehow I don't think Sam liked that too much.

Agree that we haven't really experienced Sam's pain and sorrow. We finally had one little statement from Sam telling Amelia that he recently lost his brother, but all of Sam's other flashbacks have been such that he is moving on in his life. We haven't seen grief, we haven't seen him breaking down and having a hard time with life because his brother isn't there anymore. What we have seen is a Sam that looks like he is trying to find something, he is fixing things and developing relationships - but I just don't get that Sam is grieving at all. And given as to how important his brother is to him, I would have expected something different. What I do see is that Sam is no longer tethered by his brother, by hunting - yes, he may miss Dean, but not enough and now he is finally free to go a live that life he always wanted to live. I just wonder if maybe a part of Sam is irritated and angry now that Dean is alive and back in his life.

I also wonder if Sam's negative reaction to Benny is not because he is a vampire, but because he is jealous of the close bond that the two obviously have. And you are right, Sam is not the central focus in Dean's life anymore. Sam is no longer the be all, protect all focus and motivating force in Dean's life. So, yes, I would say jealousy is playing a big part in Sam's feelings right now. But I loved your comments of Sam thinking that Dean is his property. Interesting take and not something that I would have thought of, but I do agree with that. Dean wants Sam with him because he just wants his family together, but Dean's driving purpose was always Sam - that is not the case anymore. Dean's driving force and purpose now is all about the hunt, the saving lives, the family business. Dean's driving force is dropping everything and helping Benny. That's a hard dynamic shift to understand. I do relate to Sam's side of the issue, but it is a definite shift in the brothers relationship and a great way for both of them to mature individually and collectively. But what Sam said at the end about possibly being the hunter that will kill Benny - that was cruel, that was mean, and yes, that was totally uncalled for. But the look on Dean's face - that said to me that if Sam were the one to kill Benny, I think THAT would be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Sam, in Dean's mind and heart, would be forever changed for the worse if Sam did that and I don't think that would be a betrayal that Dean could or would ever get over.

Date: 2012-11-12 10:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
My first reaction with Sam at the end of this episode was - I hate him, I literally hate him right now.
I am not even mad at him. I am disappointed but it's always been like that with him so I guess I don't exoect anything more from him.

so Dean had to force down any negative feelings he had about Sam because at that time the task at hand was more important.
It's teh story of Dean's life. He has never been allowed to explain how he felt and on the other hand, sam was really never ready to fully understand his brother issues, being always too focuse on hismelf.

the new betrayal, and all the old betrayals and now Dean is finally dealing with them.
This is the best thing of the season. Seeing Dean dealing with all his pain.

Well, Sam, you are finally getting what you wished for. Dean is treating you on equal footing and you are now going to have to face up to your actions. Dean is not going to let you get away with it any longer. Somehow I don't think Sam liked that too much.
Of course he didn't. It's like Dean is not his comfort zone anymore and this new Dean is scaring him.

We haven't seen grief, we haven't seen him breaking down and having a hard time with life because his brother isn't there anymore.
I really don't get why they haven't given us glimpses of it. It's always like that with Sam. You have to imagine what he is going through but you never fully see it.

What I do see is that Sam is no longer tethered by his brother, by hunting - yes, he may miss Dean, but not enough and now he is finally free to go a live that life he always wanted to live. I just wonder if maybe a part of Sam is irritated and angry now that Dean is alive and back in his life.
I think he is irritated but he left his perfect real life before knowing Dean was back, so there's more about him than it meets the eye.

I also wonder if Sam's negative reaction to Benny is not because he is a vampire, but because he is jealous of the close bond that the two obviously have.
He is. It's the first time Dean kinda ditches his brother and Sam is not used to it (usually it's him to sneak out during the night and vanishing without telling Dean where's going. It happens at least once a season!!!).

But I loved your comments of Sam thinking that Dean is his property.
Taking him for granted is something Sam can't afford anymore and he really doesn't know how to handle it.

I do relate to Sam's side of the issue, but it is a definite shift in the brothers relationship and a great way for both of them to mature individually and collectively.
THIS!

But the look on Dean's face - that said to me that if Sam were the one to kill Benny, I think THAT would be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Sam, in Dean's mind and heart, would be forever changed for the worse if Sam did that and I don't think that would be a betrayal that Dean could or would ever get over.
Let's hope Sam understands this, because otherwise I want to see them apart.

Date: 2012-11-09 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehjessica.livejournal.com
Thanks for letting me know about this review. I always enjoy reading different people's insights when it comes to the episodes and especially their insights into Dean. :)

I'm not 100 percent sure if Sam is worried about losing Dean, but it could very much be the case. A kind of, "You don't know what you got till it's gone," situation. Like he told Dean he wanted to get back to his own life, but perhaps realizing that if he did there's a high possibility that Sam wouldn't end up number one in his life anymore. So, I can see that. Sam has always been the most important person in Dean's world and Sam's very used to that.

I was amazed, because I always knew Sam could be immature, but he was so very immature in his response to Dean's possessed confessions that it was crazy. It looked like Dean was getting through to him. Sam looked taken aback and sad, but then his response was to get pissy and threaten to kill the one friend Dean feels he can depend on? Very mean spirited. It also screams jealous and a major amount of immaturity. Gosh, the man has two or three years on me, but he sure isn't written that way!

I want to sympathize with Sam and I can understand that he was probably hurt to have all that thrown at him, he's had a hard life, he has issues, etc. So while I can see that he was probably caught off guard and hurt to know how Dean really feels, its hard to feel too much sympathy for Sam in this situation. These were all things that Dean really needed to say and Sam really needed to hear.

Okay, I rambled way more than I thought I would and my hand still hurt from playing guitar in a cold room earlier this evening, so I'll end this! :)

Date: 2012-11-12 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
Like he told Dean he wanted to get back to his own life, but perhaps realizing that if he did there's a high possibility that Sam wouldn't end up number one in his life anymore. So, I can see that. Sam has always been the most important person in Dean's world and Sam's very used to that.
And he takes him for granted. I have the feeling he can't anymore now.

It looked like Dean was getting through to him. Sam looked taken aback and sad, but then his response was to get pissy and threaten to kill the one friend Dean feels he can depend on?
That was a very stupid reaction imo. Because the onlt thing Sam git was to push Dean away from him a little bit more.

So while I can see that he was probably caught off guard and hurt to know how Dean really feels, its hard to feel too much sympathy for Sam in this situation. These were all things that Dean really needed to say and Sam really needed to hear.
AMEN.

Date: 2012-11-09 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lidia1991-an.livejournal.com


I'm with you as usual!

Hugs you.:)

Date: 2012-11-12 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
*loves*

Date: 2012-11-09 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kros-21.livejournal.com
Here I am for the commentary.

So Sam killed Dean's daughter because the girl was gonna eat Dean otherwise. that's different. I think you made the wrong comparison there. Still, I understand why Dean doesn't want to kill Benny and if we start from the assumptions that monsters can change and live without hurting anybody than Benny surely has another reason to be left alive.

ahahahahahah when Garth asks Dean how he got out of purgatory Sam's face was hilarious. XD Like, "oh yeah, good point, i would like to know too". Since now Benny existence is out in the open I don't see why Dean shouldn't tell Sam the whole story.

I agree Sam's love interest actress leaves me indifferent and unimpressed. I'm not interested in what happened between them.

"Sammy"! ç_________ç

Is the readhead from the biblio one of the girls from Dawson's Creek? O.o

how cool to see how the penny went from a person to the other just at the end of the episode. very nice trick.

OUCH. the whole speech of possessed!Dean hurt like a bitch. Can't said he wasn't right though. Those are pretty major screws up from Sam. It's understandable that Dean still holds a grudge on all of that. "you have been procteting him your whole life, don't stop now" aaaaaawwwwwww

the line about Benny being more of a brother than Sam has ever been was a bit too much for me. I mean Dean is always doing these big statements. He said something about Castiel last season as well that has me all "woah, woah woah" don't exagerrate now. Sam has been with him his whole life, even before the story when we know it started. When they were kids anf stuff.... and even with all the major screws up there have been great brotherly moments too. Sometimes it's like Dean is too easy in finding a "replacement" when Sam disappoints him.

Look at Sammy's face right before Dean says goodbye. ç____ç

Garth is my new hero now. He totally saved the day.

STOP BEING AN IDJOT! WITH BOBBY GONE YOU AND SAM ARE ALL EACH OTHER HAVE. AND YOU KNOW IT'S NOT SO BAD.
SO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
I know that Dean has many reasons to be mad and feel betrayed Vale, I do. But when people love each other the keep find a way to go on anyway and forgive each other. It's a lot of forgiving on Dean's side, I know. But I mean, it's them. I have not lost faith in the epic brotherly love.

Didn't like Sam's rage at the end at all. It was not his place to be mad. But one thing is that they can't go on with Dean bring it up the why didn't you look for him over and over again. Either he can forget or he can't. I mean, it's tough. But it's like when someone in a couple cheats on the other and the cheated on decided to get back together but then they bring up the betrayal whenever they fight. It becomes unfair.
So I would like a real confrontation between them when no one is possessed but since with the Winchesters is nearly impossible.....






Date: 2012-11-12 11:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
I disagree, because Emma shifted and promised she was not going to kill anyone, but I get why Sam killed her. He thought she was going to kill Dean and just shot her. Amy, otoh, did kill already and even if she promised not to kill antone, was a risk Dean couldn't afford. So for me, making differences is pure philosophy.

Since now Benny existence is out in the open I don't see why Dean shouldn't tell Sam the whole story.
Because they have issues and Sam's attitude is not helping. Plus I think it's because It still haunts Dean and is somehow connected to what happened to Cas.

"Sammy"! ç_________ç
Yeah...*sighs*

Is the readhead from the biblio one of the girls from Dawson's Creek? O.o
I have no idea.

OUCH. the whole speech of possessed!Dean hurt like a bitch. Can't said he wasn't right though. Those are pretty major screws up from Sam. It's understandable that Dean still holds a grudge on all of that.
THIS!

"you have been procteting him your whole life, don't stop now" aaaaaawwwwwww
Yes but can't just get over everything so easily. It's not healthy.

the line about Benny being more of a brother than Sam has ever been was a bit too much for me.
I agree, but rage exagerrates things. Plus I can see where he was coming from.

Sometimes it's like Dean is too easy in finding a "replacement" when Sam disappoints him.
Probably because Sam hasn't really given him what he was looking for.

But when people love each other the keep find a way to go on anyway and forgive each other. It's a lot of forgiving on Dean's side, I know. But I mean, it's them. I have not lost faith in the epic brotherly love.
I am all for forgiving, but not before all their issues (on both sides) have been addressed and worked out.

Didn't like Sam's rage at the end at all. It was not his place to be mad.
I love how unbiased you are :)

But one thing is that they can't go on with Dean bring it up the why didn't you look for him over and over again. Either he can forget or he can't.
I agree and I think he can't. I mean, he tries but he can't especailly because he doesn't understand Sam now. And Sam doesn't even try to symphatize with his brother. What he said about Benny has been the most stupid thing he could have said, because Dean's reaction was not "no Sammy don't, I'm with you". Dean's reaction was all about "don't you dare because you don't know how its' going. Don't take me for granted anymore".

So I would like a real confrontation between them when no one is possessed but since with the Winchesters is nearly impossible.....
YEP.

Date: 2012-11-12 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kros-21.livejournal.com
love how unbiased you are :)

thanks. this means a lot, really. I try hard. You know I like Sam, or at least I like how Sam used to be but that doesn't mean I can't see when he is completely in the wrong and same goes for Dean.


Sam is pushing Dean away even more with his stupid behaviour. It's horrible to watch, I'm not pleased at all Vale. :/

Date: 2012-11-13 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
Yep I know you are not. I am neither.

Part 1

Date: 2012-11-10 10:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roselani24.livejournal.com
Great review Val! ITA with most of it.

"You're not Bobby". Oh Dean I get you are hurt, but Garth was right. Bobby was not just yours and Garth is hurting too. So yeah...he doesn't deserve to be treated like that. Anyway, Dean's change in attitude was his way to say that he was sorry about it.

True that Bobby was not just Dean's and Sam's, however, it has been a year since Bobby died--over a year since he first died and just a year since his ghost was put to rest actually--and Garth sure didn't seem to be mourning in the beer episode when he made his second appearance. Garth had a right to mourn, but given how healthy he supposedly is as a hunter (which honestly makes NO sense given how everyone else has been portrayed in the hunting world) I found his near tears expression overdone. Needless to say, I found that whole part very annoying because Dean had a father/son relationship with Bobby and he never got to properly grieve thanks to being on the run from the Leviathans and then having to burn the flask and banish Bobby's ghost who hung around making it impossible to properly grieve. Like the mother of the boy in 4.15 (currently drawing a blank on the title) and Tessa telling the boy while Dean looks on that the mother can't stop hurting and grieving because she sensed her son. Before Dean could process that, he was flung into Purgatory and in a life or death situation for a whole year. SO to have Garth talking down to Dean and deliberately over mimicking Bobby was, for me, just awful. I can understand why Dean snapped a little. But I also love that he softened and acknowledged Garth's right to miss Bobby too. Again, it can't compare to Dean missing Bobby though.

Regarding Garth stepping up to fill Bobby's shoes--personally, I think SAM should have done this, but since he didn't, and the position is desperately one that needs to be filled by a competent hunter, Garth works.

So Dean gets the spectre inside and this is why he is going to talk to Sam. Well actually talking pointing a gun at him. I have to say, I don't like that there's must be a supernatural event to make these boys talk (like being demon possessed, the sirens and now a spectre) because I would like them to be mature enough to actually confront each other.

Dysfunctional the brothers certainly are! But I also understand why Dean, particularly, doesn't talk to Sam about his feelings. For one, Sam has thrown Dean's most personal confessions viciously back in his face, called him numerous names and blamed him for Sam's own choices. Then there's the fact everyone and their grandmother has told Dean to suck it up princess, to 'quit whining', to 'let it go', or like Garth told Dean in this episode, 'he's all you've got, so just let it go already'. Seriously?! Why does Dean always have to be the bigger man and let it go? And he has. Again. And wow did it make him look immensely mature and wise compared to the temper tantrum, cruel, and jealous response Sam had by the end of the episode!

Now I am all for Dean forgiving Sam and letting go of all the pain and betrayal, but the problem is for that to happen Sam has to show true remorse, starting with a genuine apology followed by actions that demonstrate Sam is trying to change and mature in his interactions with Dean. But as the end of the episode showed, maturity and Sam are nowhere near connecting. *grumbles*

Tbc later...

Re: Part 1

Date: 2012-11-12 10:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
I agree with you about Dean reaction to Garth, what I was trying to say it's that sometimes we should just let the others be free to show what they feel. On second rewatch, I agree that Garth reaction was overdone but I still think he had the right to feel that way.

I totally understand why Dean is not ready to talk to Sam and the fact that Garth did the same thing Bobbys used to do, downplaying Dean's feelings just pissed me off, but, once again, I think this matches with what Dean told after Rufus death. Their lives are too complicated to waste time fighting.
Of course Dean has always given up the fight, because he can't deal with his emotions in the first place, and this has screwed up with time big time. Nothing is less healthy than not dealing with your own issues....oh Dean...


Why does Dean always have to be the bigger man and let it go? And he has. Again. And wow did it make him look immensely mature and wise compared to the temper tantrum, cruel, and jealous response Sam had by the end of the episode!
THIS! I really don't even want to know how some people can still defend Sam saying always the same things (he has the right to have a normal life, Dean is a hypocrite and so on) and never addressing Sam's responsabilities.

But as the end of the episode showed, maturity and Sam are nowhere near connecting. *grumbles*

And there are people who say that Dean is the immature one...

Part 2

Date: 2012-11-12 07:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roselani24.livejournal.com
She nailed it perfectly imo. Dean claims too much from himself and he expects the others to do the same.

Mmm, I disagree. Dean does have high expectations of himself, but he doesn't have such high expectations of others. I suppose they could be considered high, but to me they're pretty basic expectations of a fellow human being and how to treat one another. I don't expect perfection, nor do I think Dean does. I think the problem is people (Sam, Bobby, Castiel) have not genuinely apologized and taken the blame for what happened and then taken measures to better themselves and not make the same mistake. That's why the betrayals and hurts have festered in Dean so much that even a slight natural human mistake/screw up is setting him off. Its the build up that he has sucked up and buried as he has been told to do his whole life. I'm still waiting for him to explode like a volcano. :D And I can't wait to see it!

No Sam no...for a second in that flashback I felt for you. I did really feel for you and now you are turning everything on Dean again? Haven't you listened to your brother? Have you tried to symphatize? Have you felt his pain? Sorry Sam, you were left on Earth living your life. As much as you were hurting, Dean was not just hurting in Purgatory. He was fighting, he was trying to survive. Sam...no, just no. NO NO NO. This is all wrong, your reaction is wrong, your reasons are wrong. I hope there's more. I hope the writers will give you an explanation because if this had to be the episode where I should have felt your pain and your sorrow, I didn't. I just saw a self-righteous, selfish person who thinks to be the victim, who thinks to be right, who thinks he deserves to be elsewhere with someone else (well Sam please go, just go).

WORD!!!

Sam is realizing that he can't take Dean for granted anymore, hence this rage. I hope to see this developed. I have to say, and the writers are doing good, for the first time in years Sam is having some kind of development because he has now the chance to understand that he can't take Dean for granted. Dean punched him in the face when he told him that line about Benny being more than a brother than he has ever been. It hurt Sam, but it was due because Sam must understand that he has to change if he still wants Dean in his life.

Let's hope this thing won't get lost.


It better not be! Sam is long overdue to mature and grow up and realize he really has an awesome big brother. I'm really looking forward to Sam being confronted with his brother's attention being elsewhere further. I'm also curious to see more on how Castiel handled Dean's attention being shared with Benny. I fully expect to see some jealousy and realization of what they have in Dean as a brother and friend.

Hope you're doing okay, Val. *hugs* Thinking of you, my friend.




Re: Part 2

Date: 2012-11-12 10:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
IMO it's not what Dean expects from the others, but how he deals with their reaction. Since he puts his needs and desires aside because of the others, he expects to get something back for a change and when it doesn't happen, he hurts. This is human. It's also human that other people can't give him what he needs because they just can't, because they are less, I don't want to say unselfish, sensitive. This is what I see. A Dean who has priorities which don't match with the other ones.

I think, as you said, that Dean still expects people to realize how much they have hurt him, but I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon...so I get that for some people, who don't understand Dean at all, he is the demanding guy who can't get over his old issues...they just don't see how much damaged he has been by some people actions.

Oh Dean...*cries*

I am ok Tamara, thanks for asking.

*loves*

Still missing our Damon talks though.LOL!

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