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An interesting interview with Julie Plec, here



Let's start with Stefan. He actually said that Elena needs to be fixed. It's upsetting to know that he can't love the real essence of who Elena is, but only the idea of her he has pictured in his mind. Stefan loves an Elena who has never existed the way he thinks. She has always had that dark side Stefan despises so much because, most likely, it's what he hates about himself in the first place. He needs her to be human because he can't deal with that part of her which reminds him who he is.
Elena doesn't want to become human again if this means making Jeremy go crazy. She stated it loud and clear. Is Stefan going to respect her will?
No he won't, because it's not his.

Caroline...along with Stefan, the only thing she is worried about is the sire bond. They don't even know if it's real, but they are trying to find proofs of their theory, ignoring everything that contradicts it (like for example the fact that Elena didn't do what Damon told her about feeding from that blonde at the college or she didn't call Stefan after the Jeremy debacle).
So tbh the sire bond thing can be there, but it's not so important as they want to think...because hey is better to turn Elena in a human being again and let Klaus using her blood to create an army he will use to take over the world, than admitting the possibility that Elena might have feelings for that horrible monster Damon is.
While I can live with Stefan acting like that, I can't really justify Caroline anymore. Mainly for two reasons:
-the way she acts around Klaus, almost ignoring that he is way worse than Damon
-because she has had plenty of occasions to see that Damon is not anymore just the guy who manipulated her in S1. Damon still does questionable things (sorry but Caroline was the one who was ok with Tyler's friend being killed to save Elena), but he is also the one who has saved her life several times. One of those times, almost costed him everything....but she doesn't care, like she doesn't care about the fact that Damon was actually the one to help her mom when she found that Caroline was a vampire.
She never thanked Damon for anything and she has always been even more judgmental than Bonnie. Damon is rude, manipulative and never right? No sorry, if Caroline doesn't start to question her own ability of judging or seriously I can't with her...and I don't care if she was talking about Damon or if she was, deep down, telling what's happening with Klaus. ATM Caroline is not in my favorite characters list.

Let's get to talk about the sire bond.
Do we really think Elena did what she did because she is sired to Damon? I am not even a real Delena shipper, but if someone thinks is like that, then we watch a different show.
Let me explain why:
-Elena's feelings for Damon have been developing since S1. The passion I saw in the sex scene, was the one I saw in Heart of Darkness.
-Damon didn't ask for sex, not even told her once to break up with Stefan. On the contrary he tried to fix things between them. Now the thing is, either Damon is faking everything, pushing Elena in a direction, hoping to get her to do exactly the opposite, according to a very complicated and unrealistic mental scheme, or Damon was genuine and really just wanted Stefan and Elena to be happy.
From the rules the writers have estabilished for the sire bond, considering Klaus and Tyler as an example, the sired person does whatever his sire says because he thinks it's right. I haven't seen this coming from Elena since she has turned.
My take on this whole sire bond thing is that just the possibilty of it will increase the tension between Damon, Stefan and Elena. Elena will get to know, Damon will decide that their time has yet to come since he wants it to be real.
Elena will be unsired and will be on her own for a while, trying to figure her feelings out.

As for Damon, I can only said that he gave me all the feels when Elena told him "you". First time ever he was chosen, he felt accepted. I don't think he knew about the sire bond, because his reaction was totally of genuine surprise and disbelief. I really had the feeling that he was melting inside, savouring the effect of having something he has been looking for all his life.

Some more thoughts:
-stop to hurt Jeremy. I seriously dislike how Stefan is manipulating him.

-yay for Matt. He is my second favorite character ATM.

-I love Klaus. I love to hate him actually.

-Stefan might not be the ripper anymore, but he is doing a lot of bad things and apparentely Caroline supports them. No love right now, because what they are doing to Elena in terms of not letting her free to decide is way worse than everything happened to her before on this front.

-Damon reaction when Stefan decided to crash someone else broke me. As much as Damon is always trying to be considered the bad guy, his brother feelings are going to kill him...because Damon loves Stefan.

-not yet interested in April and Dr Shane, but I need to rewatch the episode to catch some more details on them.

-want Rebekah back.



HAPPY WEEKEND AND HAPPY HAVEN FRIDAY EVERYONE!

Date: 2012-11-30 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com
*HUGS*

Happy Weekend, bb!!

Date: 2012-12-03 09:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
*loves*

Date: 2012-12-01 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] linsell-farm.livejournal.com
Drive-by comment ... I saw you sign in on Skype very early this morning (for me - around 7 am for you, I think) and was sorry that I couldn't talk to you then.

I hope we can do that again soon. Maybe Monday, Dec 10th ...

Anyhow, I will return here to do a proper comment, but don't have the time ATM.

*hugs*

Date: 2012-12-01 01:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arabian.livejournal.com
Overall, you know I agree with this -- although I do like April and Dr Shane.

I just can't with the fandom anger towards this. I just can't.
Edited Date: 2012-12-01 02:02 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-12-01 08:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
Fandom reaction was on instinct I think. It was my first reaction too, I had to rewatch it to calm down and considering the sire bond as a way to make their love stronger, because I have no doubt that Damon will try to make the right thing, risking to push Elena in Stefan's arms.

What really annoys me is not fandom, not anymore at least, but how some characters, including Stefan, who loves Damon, consider him as not good enough for anyone....

Seriously Stefan?

Date: 2012-12-01 07:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] laudanumdream.livejournal.com
Stefan and Caroline don't know that she didn't drink from the blonde girl. She probably didn't tell Stefan everything; they've been dishonest with each other since before the season even started.

I think that's one of the reasons why I was part of the fandom that reacted with frustration. I wanted to be all "Happy feelings!" but the intercut half-ass justification of "Oh, well Elena's still broken!" between Caroline/Stefan was taking it down a notch for me. Of course I feel like it was real because Damon and Elena have been building towards this moment, but the constant beating over the head between the two nimrods of how wrong it was because Stefan and Elena are EPIC was just... gah aggravating.

I try to watch the show for what it is - and I've never seen them as EPIC. I don't know what everyone is talking about when they refer it like that. They seemed like a dysfunctional couple from the start. Stefan was always trying to "protect" Elena by withholding information or flat out lying to her and Damon, for the most part, has been honest with her.

So I hope that with the "sire bond" they'll be like, "Oh okay" and just accept their feelings. Hopefully they'll address "Heart of Darkness" and Damon will be like, "You were into me when you were a human, you were just in denial" and they'll be okay.

I was crazy annoyed with Caroline. She cahoodles with Klaus and then has the audacity to call Damon wrong in every which way. Wasn't it just last season when she was forcing Elena to admit she has feelings for Damon in 3x04?

Did you see the preview for the next episode? Did you see the web clip? I'd like to talk about them.

Date: 2012-12-03 09:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
She probably didn't tell Stefan everything; they've been dishonest with each other since before the season even started.
They were and this is not Damon's fault. Problem is Stefan can't accept her for who she is now.

I agree about everything you said, let's see how it works out.

Yep I have watched them and trust me, as much as I love Stefan, I am so mada t him right now....we can talk about it whenever you want.

Date: 2012-12-02 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kros-21.livejournal.com
Stefan had dato fuori di matto in questo episodio. Lo volevo tipo schiaffeggiare quando ha costretto Jeremy a uccidere quel vampiro però poi mi sono calmata nella scena in cui dice a Elena quello che aveva fatto (non me lo aspettavo) e Damon arriva da dietro e lui se ne va.
Pensaci come se tu fossi Stefan e non una Damon fan. E' vero che lui riesce ad amare solo l'Elena umana ma è perchè quella Elena lo ricambia e l'Elena vampira no. Inoltre accidenti che batosta quando Elena si trasferisce li alla fine. Cioè. oltre al danno pure la beffa. Bella botta di insensibilità Elena.
Quindi non condivido molte delle scelte di Stefan nelle ultime puntate però diciamo che capisco.

Caroline, fin tanto che ha parlato con Elena da sola ci poteva ancora stare perchè lei ovvio che è team!Stefan. Stefan l'ha aiutato quando lei è diventata un vampiro, nel periodo più delicato e loro sono sempre stati molto vicini. Ci sta. Però alla fine quando Stefan praticamente sembrava rassegnato, a stare li ad alimentare il fuoco e a dare speranza vane mi sembra un po' troppo.

Sta cosa del sire mi sembra una cavolata. Sicuramente Elena non è andata con Damon per quel motivo. Sta facendo il tira e molla trai i fratelli praticamente dalla prima stagione. Mo vediamo dove andremo a finire.... ma non promette nulla di buono.

Son contenta per Damon, dopo tanto tempo. Mi dispiace cmq per Stefan perchè non deve essere facile. Ed Elena mi sta sempre più sulle balle. XD

Date: 2012-12-05 09:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
Io lo capisco però...è disperato. Mi dispiace solo che non riesca a fare quel salto che gli permetterebbe di vivere meglio.

No per me non è così. Il vero motivo per cui Stefan non riesce ad accettare Elena, è perchè lui non riesce ad accettare se stesso e mi dispiace, non puoi fare qualunque cosa per riavere quello che hai perso. Io poi sono convinta che anche da umana, Elena alla fine avrebbe lasciato Stefan. Non si tratta di essere fan di uno o di un altro (anche perchè per me qui la realzione più importante è tra Damon e Stefan), si tratta di buona scrittura. Non ti basi sui libri e costruisci una tensione per 3 stagioni, per poi ignorarla.

Eh si di base io ancora penso che i fratelli Salvatore se ne dovrebbero andare e ricominciare da capo!

Date: 2012-12-03 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] roselani24.livejournal.com
Catching up here still. Hope you had a great weekend Val! :)

On to the episode! Wow, what a good episode it was! Great review on it too! I very much agree, especially regarding Caroline at this point. But then, her character has been meh for me for a long time now.

WORD to all your thoughts about the sire bond! Seriously, even if there is a sire bond of sorts inbetween Damon and Elena, it certainly has not made Elena do anything she has not wanted to do. Also, I'd like to point out to Caroline that it was Damon, in fact, who first told everyone about the sire bond. She was practically quoting Damon in her scene with Stefan at the end despite hating on him the whole episode. That said, I don't believe Damon has a single clue about the sire bond. Even before Elena turned into a vampire, she trusted Damon and they have had a very honest relationship pretty much from the beginning. And Elena has been turning to Damon for help for months and, despite Stefan's return, she has ultimately been relying on Damon. Her interaction with him so far has seemed like a natural extension of their deepened bond from last season despite all the bumps.

Jeremy and Matt--goodness how I adore these two! I love how Matt is there for Jeremy, is there for Elena, and is acting as the human rock for them in light of Ric's death. He's even stepped forward to help Damon! And Jeremy, or my the poor boy is in a rough spot! And with Stefan terrorizing him and manipulating him on top of being messed with by the witches and no the hunter's mark...its a wonder he hasn't gone crazy!

On a shallow note, whoooowee Steven sure has big muscles and is really looking mighty fine this season! That suit! Gah!!! He was rocking it! :D Shallow moment over.

I also really love how Jeremy stood up to Stefan and fought back. I am quite curious to see him interact with Damon now. :D

I actually kinda liked Klaus in this episode too, despite being able to take him or leave him most of the time.

But I was actually more interested in Tyler and what's going on with him and the other hybrids. I want to know why breaking the sire bond to Klaus in all the hybrids is so important to Professor Shane. Also, I just like Tyler and how he has grown from the jerk in S1 to someone who is willing and able to work in a team, to take risks for the sake of others. Lol, it also probably helped that despite what Stefan, Jeremy, and Caroline did in the previous episode by making a deal with Klaus and killing Chris the hybrid (someone who had in fact just helped them get to Elena before Stefan lost her again), Tyler had a civil conversation with Damon and heeded Damon's paranoia regarding Haley talking with Professor Shane. He asked Haley about it, fairly discreetly, and while she lied, he followed up. Points to Tyler for follow through!

I was sad we didn't get to see Bonnie this episode, ironically. I know she was a pain in 4.04, but I still like the character more then Caroline because at least she says what she thinks to a person's face i.e. Damon. Judgy yes, but up front about it and supportive of Elena despite everything.

Professor Shane has me curious what he's up too and particularly intrigued by the power he has without actually showing any powers.

And I like April so far. She's not exciting per se but I forsee her becoming important in the future. And she adds a human element to the gang besides poor Matt. :)

Can't wait for the next episode! Poor Damon! :( Real sire bond or partial, he's going to be hurt by this. I am looking forward to the 1940s flashback tho! Hee, reminds me of a certain hunter traveling back in time and meeting Eliot Ness and wearing an awesome old school suit and fedora. *g* :D

Date: 2012-12-05 09:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
But then, her character has been meh for me for a long time now.
Yeah exactly.

Also, I'd like to point out to Caroline that it was Damon, in fact, who first told everyone about the sire bond. She was practically quoting Damon in her scene with Stefan at the end despite hating on him the whole episode.
YES!
I hate all her hate..seriously.

That said, I don't believe Damon has a single clue about the sire bond.
He doesn't, it's pretty clear from teh sneak peek of the next episode.

Even before Elena turned into a vampire, she trusted Damon and they have had a very honest relationship pretty much from the beginning.
Is that so hard to see?

And Elena has been turning to Damon for help for months and, despite Stefan's return, she has ultimately been relying on Damon. Her interaction with him so far has seemed like a natural extension of their deepened bond from last season despite all the bumps.

I love you, because it's so canon...I wonder how people can deny it.

Jeremy and Matt--goodness how I adore these two! I love how Matt is there for Jeremy, is there for Elena, and is acting as the human rock for them in light of Ric's death. He's even stepped forward to help Damon!
MATT DONOVAN FTW!

And Jeremy, or my the poor boy is in a rough spot! And with Stefan terrorizing him and manipulating him on top of being messed with by the witches and no the hunter's mark...its a wonder he hasn't gone crazy!
Stefan went crazy and should feel remorse for what he caused. Oh Jer...

I also really love how Jeremy stood up to Stefan and fought back. I am quite curious to see him interact with Damon now. :D
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT...my shallow moment!

I actually kinda liked Klaus in this episode too, despite being able to take him or leave him most of the time.
Me too, but it's someone I love to have around now and then :)

I want to know why breaking the sire bond to Klaus in all the hybrids is so important to Professor Shane.
I don't trust him at all. Hopefully it's not something that is going to hurt our favorite vamps.

Also, I just like Tyler and how he has grown from the jerk in S1 to someone who is willing and able to work in a team, to take risks for the sake of others.
Me too, a lot.

Tyler had a civil conversation with Damon and heeded Damon's paranoia regarding Haley talking with Professor Shane. He asked Haley about it, fairly discreetly, and while she lied, he followed up. Points to Tyler for follow through!
Kudos Tyler. I can see him and Damon teaming up.

because at least she says what she thinks to a person's face i.e. Damon. Judgy yes, but up front about it and supportive of Elena despite everything.
Amen to that.

Can't wait for the next episode! Poor Damon! :( Real sire bond or partial, he's going to be hurt by this.
He is going to push Elena way and then fight for their love.
He will break us.

I am looking forward to the 1940s flashback tho! Hee, reminds me of a certain hunter traveling back in time and meeting Eliot Ness and wearing an awesome old school suit and fedora. *g* :D
My thought exactly. Can we have them teaming up, since Dean likes vamps now and someone was wrting a fic about them?

LOL!

Date: 2012-12-04 01:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] linsell-farm.livejournal.com
It's upsetting to know that he can't love the real essence of who Elena is, but only the idea of her he has pictured in his mind.

So well said, sweetie, and I completely agree (along with everything else you wrote in this paragraph).

So tbh the sire bond thing can be there, but it's not so important as they want to think.

Thank You, my friend, for being clever enough to see it this way (and level-headed, as well). We have yet to discover just what a sire bond between two vampires (as opposed to hybrids) mean, plus the show loves to present things that seem real and truthful only to reveal a complete turn around later on. This could be either of those, and I'm very interested to see how this plays out.

As for Caroline, I understand that her attitude leaves something to be desired but I'm a little more lenient with her. I do think her unacknowledged feelings for Klaus make her judge Elena more harshly, which is not excusable. She's always been more prone to shallow reactions and unbending loyalty than Elena or Bonnie. I hope the writers take this opportunity to show some growth for Caroline and have her look inside and re-evaluate her opinion of Elena and Damon together.

The sire bond will certainly allow for more tension between the three of them. I was thinking that Elena would figure out pretty quickly that her feelings for Damon are real and do her best to convince him of that. I have no idea how the whole cure and sire bond storylines will turn out at the end of the season, but am very interested in finding out.

As for Damon, I can only say that he gave me all the feels when Elena told him "you". First time ever he was chosen, he felt accepted.

WORD.
Nobody's face gets to me like Damon's does. I absolutely agree that he had no knowledge of the sire bond. He could not have reacted the way he did, if he'd had any idea.

I hated how Stefan manipulated Jeremy, but was thrilled that Jer stood up to him.
I join you in loving Matt. He's been growing on me for quite awhile, and I love that he's staying with Jer to support and look out for him.
Stefan is being a first rate jackass right now, but I enjoy his character like that much more than Saint Stefan. He and Caroline are very much on the same page of the 'see what you want to see' handbook.

I did feel badly for Damon when he was talking to Stefan in the foyer. He was making it as clear as he can that Stefan was his priority and Stefan rejected him, as usual.

Good catch on Damon's expression as Stefan left. it spoke of how hard it was for him. He didn't want Stefan to go, at all. Our Salvatore Brothers certainly have lots of issues.

Wonderful post, as usual, sweetie. I always enjoy reading your thoughts and am sorry that I don't get over here as quickly as I would like after each episode.

*hugs*

Hope we'll get to have another Skype date soon.

Date: 2012-12-05 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] x5vale.livejournal.com
Thank You, my friend, for being clever enough to see it this way (and level-headed, as well).
I was actually very upset while watching it. It took me a second rewatch and a lot of thinking about how vamps siring works to calm down.
Anyway I have no doubt that Elena's feelings are real because they have been there for a very long time.

This could be either of those, and I'm very interested to see how this plays out.
THIS!

I do think her unacknowledged feelings for Klaus make her judge Elena more harshly, which is not excusable.
Excatly. It's been two seasons that caroline is not the one I used to love and honestly I am not interested in trying to understand her reasons anymore.

I hope the writers take this opportunity to show some growth for Caroline and have her look inside and re-evaluate her opinion of Elena and Damon together.
Being Stefan best friend doesn't mean she has to be so anti-damon..plus is not a good way to be a friend. She should help Stefan in rebonding with Damon, not trying to destroy their relationship.

I was thinking that Elena would figure out pretty quickly that her feelings for Damon are real and do her best to convince him of that.
Me too.


Nobody's face gets to me like Damon's does. I absolutely agree that he had no knowledge of the sire bond. He could not have reacted the way he did, if he'd had any idea.

Because Damon is way much better than everyone in MF think.


Stefan is being a first rate jackass right now, but I enjoy his character like that much more than Saint Stefan. He and Caroline are very much on the same page of the 'see what you want to see' handbook.

I enjoy this Stefan too as long as he becomes judgey and unfair to Damon because, tbh, in my opinion if Elena doesn't want him anymore, it's not Damon's fault. people change, desires and feelings too. Plus it's not that Stefan has been the best boyfriend ever and their love is everything but EPIC.

I did feel badly for Damon when he was talking to Stefan in the foyer. He was making it as clear as he can that Stefan was his priority and Stefan rejected him, as usual.
I get that Stefan is upset and doesn't want his brother around, but he should have totally clear that his brother loves him.

Good catch on Damon's expression as Stefan left. it spoke of how hard it was for him. He didn't want Stefan to go, at all. Our Salvatore Brothers certainly have lots of issues.
Being a Defan fan, I am all for angst, but they have to be together and they have to be brothers again.

Wonderful post, as usual, sweetie. I always enjoy reading your thoughts and am sorry that I don't get over here as quickly as I would like after each episode.
Thank you and don't worry!

*hugs*

Hope we'll get to have another Skype date soon.

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